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Description
First of all: What is the difference between Preferences and Administration? For example: why do I see 'Encryption and Keyrings' in Preferences and 'Keyring Manager' in Administration? What is the difference between 'Default Printer' and 'Printing'? Why do I have to disable the Tracker under Sessions and not under Search and Indexing? And why are these menu's so large? I have 24 items in Preferences (they don't even fit on my screen!) and 18 items in Administration. To put all this stuff in a popup menu is bad interface design imho. Besides, the number of option should be much smaller. A few suggestions:
- Merge 'Screensaver', 'Screen Resolution' and 'Screens and Graphics'.
- Merge 'Network', 'Network Proxy' and 'Network Tools'.
- Merge 'Update Manager, Synaptic Package Manager, Software Sources'.
- Merge 'Encryption and Keyrings', 'Authorizations', 'Keyring Manager'.
Below are all settings I can visit via the System menu. This is just way too much.
-- Preferences --
Universal Access
About Me
Appearance
Bluetooth
Default Printer
Encryption and Keyrings
Keyboard
Keyboard Shortcuts
Main Menu
Mouse
Network Proxy
PalmOS Devices (I don't have one)
Power Management
Preferred Applications
Remote Desktop
Removable Drives and Media
SCIM Input Method Setup (What is this?)
Screen Resolution
Screensaver
Search and Index (Why can't I disable the tracker here?)
Sessions
Sound
System Settings
Windows
-- Administration --
Authorizations (for what?)
Hardware Drivers
Keyring Manager (for what?)
Language Support
Login Window
Network
Network Tools
Printing
Screens and Graphics
Services
Shared Folders
Software Sources
Synaptic Package Manager (imagine a new user: wtf is Synaptic?)
System Log
System Monitor
Time and Date
Update Manager
Users and Groups
Tags:
(none)
Attachments
 Bug #174277 : Launchers under "System > Preferences" and "System > Administration" have similar names, leads to confusion.
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Duplicates
Comments
 Alan Pope (Ubuntu Developer) wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 16:52
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In answer to your first question..
Preferences is for user specific settings.
Administration is for system wide settings.
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Shosta wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 16:58
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For better organization you can use gnome-control-center
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writser wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 17:12
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Sure, but where can a user find gnome-control-center? I've never seen it before and I have used Ubuntu for a long, long time. Besides, it still has all the same items as the original two menus.
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BadChoice wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 17:51
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I think it has to have the 2 modes,
for example, if you use "gnome-do" simpli writing "scr" you just get in screen manager, if you type "net" you go to network.. if there's only a more classified panel, you should do more cliks to get where you want...
So a very cool gnome-do idea will be to acces inside managers... like typing "resolution" and let you change it
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Loffe wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 18:57
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Well, the hard thing with gnome-do is that you need to know what to type to find it.
If I type "scr" and the press down arrow, I get a list of Screensaver, Screen Resolution, Screens and Graphics, Screenlets, Take Screenshot, Orca Screen Reader and lots more.
The problem is that there are to many different dialogs. Every dialog can do only one thing.
I guess the reason behind this is that some actions require root access, and dialog should be separated from user settings. I suppose this could be fix with the brand new policy kit. One dialog could be used with some options disabled when in user mode. It could then be unlocked to gain root access.
We should do something about this two BIG menus. I hate to scroll in menus...
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markba wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 19:07
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I also like to see gnome-control-center by default. If this is done, all settings are avialable from a central point thus making it easier to access.
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sportman1280 wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 19:14
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all of the preferences should be better merged. They are just to divided right now and ends up cluttering the screen.
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maco wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 19:59
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There shouldn't be more than, say, 15 items in either menu. I have 13 in my Preferences menu after doing some configuration.
Why is PalmOS devices even in there? Why is that even part of a default install?
Removable Drives & Media should be merged with Preferred Applications. Look at them. The drives & media one just asks which application you'd prefer to use with which types of media.
Merging Keyboard Shortcuts and Keyboard together would also make a lot of sense.
If you have Sun Java 5, Sun Java 6, and Iced Tea Java 7 all installed, you end up with something like 5 or 6 Java items in your Preferences menu. Why not have one "Java" item that opens an applet. That applet can let the user pick which Java to configure or if they want to set them all to do the same thing, some sort of "Select All."
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MakotoTheKnight wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 20:09
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GNOME-Control-Center is good, but there definitely needs to be some organization and some consistency with what we have on the menu. Take "Appearance" for example -- that merged a whole lot of functions that were scattered all over that list, and they did it in a tasteful way, too.
This would definitely be a step in the right direction.
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nicoladimaria wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 21:32
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I cannot say how much I agree with the poster
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interval wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 23:38
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I cannot say how much I disagree with the poster. I'm kidding. Kind of. While I agree the settings stack could use a little more org, the parent comment about the keyrings stuff is waaay off. There's an obvious difference between keyrings and keyrings manager. DO NOT MERGE THESE TWO. If fact, I'd be surprised if the ubu team took that point under consideration.
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randomnote1 wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 23:46
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The controls should be consolidated into sort of a control panel or systems preferences rather than individual preferences. That would mean standardizing the interfaces. Certain things like the PalmOS devices probably should be add-ons. I know for me, it's definitely a waste of space, but I don't bother taking the time to remove them.
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djxhan wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 23:52
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If "Preferences" is for user settings and "Administration" is for system-wide changes, why not make this a little more clear? As it stands the names are ever so slightly esoteric. Maybe "User Settings" and "System Settings" or something vaguely like that.
On the other issue, I've never understood why there are so many different applets in those two menus. It seems some could be consolidated, perhaps if there were user areas and admin areas in the same dialogue. Then instead of "Screen Resolution" and "Screens and Graphics" there could be one "Screen" management utility. If you needed to admin something, type in your password, and away you go.
It's an idea, not sure if it's a good one :)
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Yunfeng wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 00:03
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Why divide to user and system settings? I would prefer to put all settings together in the control center. When users are configuring some settings, the default behavior only applies to this users. However, give users the option to apply change to the entire system (applying to other users as well) while requesting the administration authorization.
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dmuir wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 00:20
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The "Screen Resolution" and "Screens and Graphics" is one that has always bugged me. I try changing the resolution in one, but it doesn't work, because I haven't changed it in the other. That's just stupid. Changing screen resolutions and monitor configurations shouldn't require Administrator privileges.
Hopefully PolicyKit will let us have a single unified Screen utility.
Is the "Screen Resolution" utility even needed anymore? From my personal use, I've never touched it since "Screens and Graphics" came in (not to mention "Screen Resolution" doesn't support multiple monitors).
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deadowl wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 00:39
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I must say it's nice to have administrative preferences and user preferences separate.
However, I do believe that menus just don't work with more than 10 items.
I also believe that the separation between Administration and Preferences is a bit ambiguous (ex. Default Printer vs. Printers) for new users.
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aliencam wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 01:12
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I just organized them all into folders using the manager. I have always kept an extremely clean "start menu" but i don't know how big of a deal this is. If oyu look at a typical Windows XP computer, just clicking "start" takes up the whole screen with the millions of programs installed. stupid, yes. but i don't know if most people are annoyed by this. I think it would be better for people to organize it themselves (otherwise it may be too hard to find a preference or program)
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lcampagn wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 01:39
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Ditto for KDE-- why are keyboard hot keys under "accessibility", keyboard layout under "regions", and all other keyboard settings under "keyboard" ?
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Aeuta wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 02:18
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Yes this is an "ABSOLUTE MUST" there are way too many things...if possible the number should on default install be decreased to a maximum of 10. A simple thing would be to merge software sources and the package manager.
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ucantblamem wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 02:28
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[quote]"Preferences" is for user settings and "Administration" is for system-wide changes[/quote]
That's thinking like a computer... A *person* using a computer doesn't care whether it's system wide or not, they just want to change something.
User-interface functionality should be grouped so that (for example) anything to do with the Keyboard should be under one over-arching menu-item labeled "Keyboards". If you've ever watched a newb use a computer this makes a lot more sense, because that's how human's think...
And I totally agree with the synaptic thing - I had no idea what this was until an old-hat linux user explained it to me.
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DShepherd wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 02:29
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This should be done a long long time ago, Ubuntu what are you waiting for?
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biocode wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 02:48
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YaST from the SuSE distribution is another good example of a consolidated administration program.
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mysticmatrix wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 02:49
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[quote]That's thinking like a computer... A *person* using a computer doesn't care whether it's system wide or not, they just want to change something. [/quote]
Well there may be more than *a* person using the computer in most cases, and it make sense to do so.
If you want to have a look, create a separate user account with no administrative right, and his system menu consists of very few options.
Regarding the suggestion, thumbs up. The Gnome team has already simplified options in this release(AKA Apperance merged Wallpapers,themes,etc) and they would be welcoming to simplify dialogs even more(I guess).
As for my opinion, I just simply turn off most of options I don't use(like separate Software Sources option, as they are in Synaptic anyway), but its important to keep few options in relatively logical manner for users, than to spread them all over in separate dialogs.
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Ralf.Nieuwenhuijsen wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 03:39
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Administration and preferences can and should be unified.
There are only two possibilities:
a) you can set a certain configuration option system-wide
b) you can set a certain configuration option on the user-level
When B is true, we don't need A at all. So, with the new policy-kit the interfaces can be merged. You unlock the system-wide settings if you need to change one of them and you have the right to do so. So things like screen-resolution and administration _finally_ can be merged and that's a good thing.
Off course, it begs the question what are we going to do with the system menu afterwards? They already kicked out the usefull shutdown, etc. options. So what is left there? About dialogs, one shutdown option and one preferences menu?
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John Karahalis wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 04:25
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My idea (as you can see in the bug report) was to rename the launchers to clarify their purposes. I concluded as so:
"To clarify the purposes of the applications, the launchers need more appropriate names. For example, I think it would make sense to rename "Preferences => Default Printer" to "Set Default Printer". At the same time, "Administration => Printing" could be renamed to "Manage System Printers" or something like that. I think that generally, the names of the launchers under "Preferences" should emphasize the words "Set" and "Modify" whereas the names of launchers under "Administration" should emphasize the words "Manage", "System", "Global", and things like that. Doing so would greatly help the user to understand the differences between the applications."
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virtualXTC wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 05:01
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This is a gnome issue, not an Ubuntu issue. Just use KDE (Kubuntu) it's far better organized.
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mikemaccana wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 05:09
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Policykit makes this consolidation even more possible. For example, one could combine the display related items into a single application. Since X changes require extra privelege, a PolicyKit 'unlock' button can be used to prompt for the necessary credentials.
So, here's a shorter list, which combines related tools into a single item
Screens and graphics
--------------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Appearance
Screensaver
Screen Resolution
Screens and Graphics
Windows
Packages
----------------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Software Sources
Synaptic Package Manager (imagine a new user: wtf is Synaptic?)
Update Manager
Passwords and Encryption
-----------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Encryption and Keyrings
Keyring Manager (for what?)
Storage
-------------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Removable Drives and Media
Search and Index (Why can't I disable the tracker here?)
Keyboard and Mouse
------------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Keyboard
Keyboard Shortcuts
Mouse
Network
------------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Network
Network Tools
Network Proxy
Printing
---------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Printing
Default Printer
Sound
Universal Access
Bluetooth
About Me
Main Menu
PalmOS Devices (I don't have one)
Power Management
Preferred Applications
Remote Desktop
Sessions
Authorizations (for what?)
Hardware Drivers
Language Support
Login Window
Services
Shared Folders
System Log
System Monitor
Time and Date
Users and Groups
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robing wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 05:43
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> This is a gnome issue, not an Ubuntu issue.
> Just use KDE (Kubuntu) it's far better organized.
I have the same issue with Kubuntu - if it's worse in gnome, then the problem's bigger than I thought :(
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Sturmeh wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 05:54
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The difference between Preferences and Administration is a simple one.
System-wide changes that require root authorisation (sudo) are listed under Administration, whilst all the user-centric things are found under Prefrences.
However I agree it gets quite cluttered, especially with lower resolutions.
But fortunately, you can edit the menu, so there is little to complain about.
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csmth wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 05:55
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To those who don't know: SCIM input method is needed for those who use language other than English and Latin alphabets. Some people use gcin, but anything there must be some interface to set the preference, because different region/culture of people use different input method even for the same language.
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phinn wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 06:09
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This is an issue with Gnome isn't it? I have always wondered why Gnome configuration is so stupidly complicated. Look at KDE3 or Mac OSX. Very Simple. I like Gnome but this is one of it's shortcomings. I wish they would simplify this too.
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mirnazim wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 06:28
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GNOME is superb. Its quick. But definitely lacks a unified way to manage a configs.
We need something to manage things from central app. Probably a control panel with plugin architecture. where control modules could be plugged into the panel.
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joharilanng wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 08:46
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Re: the very first post.
"Preferences is for user specific settings.
Administration is for system wide settings."
These should at least read "My Preferences" and "System Administration".
Simplicity is good, but clarity is better.
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cramerx wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 08:59
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"Policykit makes this consolidation even more possible. For example, one could combine the display related items into a single application. Since X changes require extra privelege, a PolicyKit 'unlock' button can be used to prompt for the necessary credentials.
So, here's a shorter list, which combines related tools into a single item
Screens and graphics
--------------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Appearance
Screensaver
Screen Resolution
Screens and Graphics
Windows
Packages
----------------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Software Sources
Synaptic Package Manager (imagine a new user: wtf is Synaptic?)
Update Manager
Passwords and Encryption
-----------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Encryption and Keyrings
Keyring Manager (for what?)
Storage
-------------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Removable Drives and Media
Search and Index (Why can't I disable the tracker here?)
Keyboard and Mouse
------------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Keyboard
Keyboard Shortcuts
Mouse
Network
------------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Network
Network Tools
Network Proxy
Printing
---------------------
(replacing the following tools)
Printing
Default Printer "
Very Goog Idea!
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egg-sandwich wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 13:24
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I was pretty surprised to see the duplication of settings, especially the partially-functional screen resolution setting under preferences - it would be fair to conclude "Ubuntu limits me to 1024x768" on the face of it. Especially in the standard-bearer for friendly desktop Linux.
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egg-sandwich wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 13:27
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Interval said: "There's an obvious difference between keyrings and keyrings manager". Really? What? Seeing as "manager" is a generic word that often gets used in preferences/control panels, to the uninitiated "Keyrings" and "Keyrings Manager" looks exactly the same as
Keyrings
Keyrings
There obviously must be some actual difference between them, but the current names don't tell us what.
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photozz wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 14:57
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Dear god yes, please fix this. Yes, all the long time Ubuntu users see the existing menu system as logical, but new users coming from a windows or Mac environment, it makes no design sense. As an example, on Windows, I go into the control panel, display. There I can set everything having to do with the display, including links to the hardware settings for my card. One icon. The individual user and system preferences are mixed, and no one has an issue with it. Having the "Screens" "Screen Resolution" and "Screensaver" under separate applets makes no sense. This is a common issue with most of the crap on those lists. Just give me a tabbed interface by default for Christs sake. I'm not saying we need to open security on some of the functions or anything, we just need to consolidate and refine the way the existing panels are displayed into a logical presentation.
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edcrypt wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 17:44
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While it would be good to have some reorganization on this menus, merging too much apps would create bloated *apps*. I think I prefer a litle bloated menu then a bloated app.
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RyanPrior wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 18:38
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Please don't just think that replacing the menus with something like Gnome-Control-Panel or YaST would make the problem go away! The system that we've got it awesome -- it just needs some love, finding menus that can be consolidated.
Previously, we had to separate some dialogs because some things were only changeable as root -- but with the addition of PolicyKit, we can consolidate across those lines.
Please merge the settings dialogs into one menu, with roughly 10-15 items in it, separated by topic and not by any sort of underlying architecture concerns.
Navigating the options system is one of the more daunting things for Ubuntu newbies right now. Windows doesn't do a great job of this with its Control Panel either: this is a real opportunity for Ubuntu to lead the way.
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rawsausage wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 21:26
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"
Preferences is for user specific settings.
Administration is for system wide settings.
"
Well, they are all settings and most of the computers are personal - only one user anyways. I'd personally solve this by the new control panel (that for instance the OpenSuse uses) that doesn't discriminate between the two. I guess it's in the line for Gnome inclusion anyways? Just make sure it happens... It's rather usable GUI anyways.
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leandro.miranda wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 21:55
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I love it this idea, the problem is that the foundation is Gnome who does that.
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knopper67 wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 22:33
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I agree to the above comment. Gnome devs should stop being interface nazis. It's their fault the menus look like this. Apparently they think their users are idiots so they go ahead and duplicate the menu items to try to make things "simple", meanwhile it's only creating confusion.
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qaaq wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 22:51
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Enough complaining about GNOME UI policy.
The reason the desktop is so usable these days is that the developers set a bar for what gets into the interface and what doesn't.
Over time, the prefs menu has grown. It's time for a cleanup. This does NOT mean they are the result of a simplification drive gone bad. It means it's time to simplify some more!
Go use That Other Desktop Environment if you like massive collections of settings jumbled together for no apparent reason. You don't know how good you have it.
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v1ncent wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 23:19
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I know what are you saying, but there are some inconvenients, because it's good to have simple applications like the Update Manager, and it would be a shame if we have to open a robust app (that makes your system slower that it should) just to update our system.
So this changes need to be well elaborated.
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v1ncent wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 23:49
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YOU KNOW WHAT?
This problems could be merged easily:
- Merge 'Screensaver', 'Screen Resolution' and 'Screens and Graphics'
- Merge 'Network', 'Network Proxy' and 'Network Tools'.
- Merge 'Encryption and Keyrings', 'Authorizations', 'Keyring Manager'.
But this need something else:
- Merge 'Update Manager, Synaptic Package Manager, Software Sources'...
... Te solution is PackageKit!
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samuellb wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 00:14
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I agree that some options could be merged, but I think the Preferences/Administration menus should be kept because the Preferences menu affects your user account only, whereas Administration contains system-wide settings.
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probono wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 18:13
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The distinction between Preferences and Administration is not understood by most users (including myself).
They should be renamed "Settings (system-wide)" and "Settings (this user)".
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rpnunez wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 18:16
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Seriously, please fix this. One thing I like about Fedora is the way they organize their "System" menu. It's very nice and organized, and has sub-menus.
In fact, I've have to use the Menu Editor to reduce the clutter in these menus in my Ubuntu installation. Why have Default Printer AND Printers? Why not just have a button in the Printers app that let's you select a printer as default?
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jrusinek wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 20:01
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v1ncent, Linux is not Windows.
I disagree with you.
- Merge 'Screensaver', 'Screen Resolution' and 'Screens and Graphics'
Screensaver cannot be here, it should land in Appearance for example.
- Merge 'Network', 'Network Proxy' and 'Network Tools'
NetworkManager should take care of this.
- Merge 'Update Manager, Synaptic Package Manager, Software Sources'...
Merging? Gone crazy? Update takes care of updates, Synaptic takes care of managing the software and "Software Sources" takes care of list of repos. They cannot be merges.
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daretoeatapeach wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 23:55
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I agree with those who have said that this needs to be fixed. I don't have any understanding about the differences between the various menus and I find myself wasting a lot of time reading through lists, trying various things and not remembering which is which so not learning. The worst part is that there is so much duplication that if I have not found the setting I cannot confortably say Ubuntu lacks the feature because it seems like there might have been some icon that I overlooked. That is not organization. I am running kubuntu so I have to concur that it is a problem there as well. Frankly, it is a little embarrassing. I am often looking for something, like the printer manager, and my BF is rolling his eyes and daydreaming about DWM.
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smitlik wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 01:42
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I'm also disgusted - my Preferences has 33 items !
Next similar problem: I added all KDE desktop (optional) to my Ubuntu with Gnome desktop (default). But, when I start Gnome an look to:
'Applications' -> 'Other' ->
...there grew plenty of Kcontrol items, so the 'Other' now counts about 90 ( NINETY !!) items, ...that's crazy, not usable. Please help!
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v1ncent wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 11:20
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jrusinek, i've never said or suggest that Linux must be like Windows.
I only repeat what the creator of this idea has suggested in the beginning.
Maybe 'Screensaver' doesn't fit in any other category, nor in 'Appearance'.
"Update Manager, Synaptic Package Manager, Software Sources"
I suggest PackageKit for this, because (as far as i know) it merge this 3 things... i don't know, maybe i'm wrong.
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jrusinek wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 13:30
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PackageKit doesn't merge them three, because they're responsible for other tasks, silly :P .
And about "windowsization" of Linux, Novell already does this. Translations of GNOME are not like before... "Trash" (ofc in polish lang) was changes to something like "Bin" (without "Recycle"). And the Mono...
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elitepenguin wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 17:54
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microsoft completely reorganized the stuff int the control panel in vista. It's easy to find things, by using the search functionality. Ubuntu should do this too and integrate it better with deskbar.
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Ralf.Nieuwenhuijsen wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 18:58
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"Well, they are all settings and most of the computers are personal - only one user anyways"
Complete bullshit.
- Most linux desktops are still deployed in companies. They often use a thin-client and a server.
- Majority of people live _together_ in a house. You should be using seperate user accounts so you can have different email-accounts setup, different wall-papers, different chat-accounts, etc. Personal browsing history, etc.
You are not supposed to share an account. It hurts usuability. That's like trying to eat a steak with your ass. The experience is shitty, but it's your own fault for not using it correctly.
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Redrazor39 wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 19:23
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I have a better idea. First, keep "Update Manager" separate because that's kinda important.
Then, only have the often-used and really necessary items in the menus, but just below "Administration" in the "System" menu, have a button that says "More Options". When one clicks that button, it opens a window with all the options organized neatly and tabbed as preferences or administration and laid out in tile form. Then, like they have in macs, have a search tool to search for words in any of the settings that then highlights the settings that have those words in them and grays out the others.
This window would have everything we have in the system menu now except for shut down, and the menu itself would only have a few necessities.
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florus wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 12:12
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PalmOS should not be included by default
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clonedagain wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 13:38
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The names of the menu entries are awfull too.
The words "preference", "configuration", "administration", "manager" are useless and confusing. Of course these are preference and management options, that's it's all about isn't it ?
What's more, translations of these terms are really ugly, with half the menu entries begining with the same useless words.
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janbockaert wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 14:33
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I am gonna make myself unpopular, but i would suggest to switch to gnome-main-menu (the opensuse slab). There isn't only a problem with the system menu, the whole gnome-menu feels like it has had it best time.
If you only know Slab from the applet you can install in Gutsy, you don't know it very well, the Ubuntu variant is lacking and not very well integrated compared to the opensuse version.
On my previous laptop i was forced to use opensuse because of a nvidia-bug with aiglx, and i 'm really grown to the opensuse menu. Using a program browser is faster and cleaner than drilling trough menu's and submenu's.
Here is a screenshot from gnome-main-menu in Opensuse 10.3: http://news.opensuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/gnome-slab.png notice the searchbox and the recent applications that are missing in the ubuntu version. Also, when you press on control center, you get the gnome-control-center;
Off course, switching to gnome-main-menu should not exclude merging some settings. But i guess, having a good working gnome-main-menu, should not be very complex to accomplish, and does solve some of the problems with the existing gnome menu.
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mikesa81 wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 16:02
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your suggestions for merging menus only makes sense. i couldn't agree with you more! got my vote!
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vexorian wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 16:36
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The difference is that preferences don't require sudo. -1.
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nathan_s wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 22:20
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>The distinction between Preferences and Administration is not understood by most users (including myself).
>They should be renamed "Settings (system-wide)" and "Settings (this user)".
How about "Computer Settings" and "User Settings"? Parentheses are ugly.
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RyanPrior wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 23:56
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This idea is included as "implemented", but it isn't implemented in Hardy yet. What gives? Why move this idea to "Implemented" when it's not?
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greycode wrote on the 4 Mar 08 at 00:48
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I agree.. there seems to be a bunch of things marked as "implemented" but are not actually implemented.
It looks like something is considered implemented if a bug exists in launchpad which is somewhat similar to the idea even if it's not implemented in Ubuntu..
This idea is linked to a bug which is related because it's about renaming the menus. However, this brainstorm idea is about merging some of the menus to make it simpler, which is different. (And is what I personally think needs to be done)
If all that brainstorm is for is an indirect way of filing bugs in launchpad, that's pretty lame.
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Mike Graham wrote on the 4 Mar 08 at 03:42
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> The difference is that preferences don't require sudo. -1.
vexoran-
That is simply untrue. There are multiple `Administration' things that do not require superuser privileges.
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mcglnx wrote on the 4 Mar 08 at 19:51
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Did not have time to read all, but somce cleanup is definitively necessary here!
The more coherent Ubuntu is, the more user will switch!
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budo wrote on the 6 Mar 08 at 09:35
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I agree with many opinions here...
... I think that, for the average user, it is too complicated!!!
But there're 2 issues here:
1) many applications should collapse to be the same one
2) we need a better way to make preferences and administration tasks available to users.
I think that the "gnome-control-center" is better than just having many menu items in the plain list of the "Preferences" menu.
In fact my "customized distro" (that I give to my friends) has a "top-level" menu item (in System menu) that activates the gnome-control center... they feel very comfortable to that... and never even touch the "Preferences menu".
In my opinion gnome-control-center should be used by default, instead of many many many menu items!
Perhaps even Administration stuff should become part of the "gnome-control-center" in a separated tab that appears only if the user opening the control-center is an administrator.
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jespdj wrote on the 7 Mar 08 at 18:46
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I regard it as an error in the current Ubuntu that there are two places to setup screens: Preferences / Screen Resolution and Administration / Screens and Graphics. It's very confusing that there are two places to set the resolution and it is not at all clear what the difference between the two is.
I recently looked at Fedora 8, and the Preferences menu there is much better than in Ubuntu.
In Ubuntu, everything is in one very long list. In fact, it is so long that it doesn't even fit on my 1280 x 800 screen; I have to scroll to see all items.
In Fedora, the Preferences menu has five submenus: Personal, Look and Feel, Internet and Network, Hardware, System.
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hunt.topher wrote on the 10 Mar 08 at 18:30
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On my install, I just used alacarte to remove Preferences and Administration from my System menu, and I put a shortcut to Gnome Control Center in their place. Now to make any settings changes I open up Control Center, which is one organized window with neat category buttons and a search bar. I would much rather see this sort of setup at default install than see two long, confusing lists of individual option windows.
With the implementation of PolicyKit in Hardy Heron, Ubuntu's settings windows will be more integrated and separating them into two categories "Preferences" and "Administration" will make less sense than it has in the past. Consider just replacing the long settings lists with the Control Center.
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Vadim P. wrote on the 15 Mar 08 at 15:05
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Actually, there exists such a thing - even in 7.10. Alt+F2, "gnome-control-center" will get you there.
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yok-sudo wrote on the 17 Mar 08 at 11:43
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The first step is merging the capplets! It make sense if you use gnome-control-center or not. Can someone tell me why the gnome project decided to not include the keyboard shotcuts into the new keyboard capplet?
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mcwest wrote on the 17 Mar 08 at 19:29
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I partly agree with the author but this is the case to speak about,everybody like the other arrangement thats the point.
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Wiplash4 wrote on the 19 Mar 08 at 12:02
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In the last versions the Administration and Preferences have been changed, but it became overloaded.
Following items would suffice
1. Keyboard/Mouse-Manager
2. Hardware-Manager controlling all the Hardware (Printer, RAM, Harddisks, Power-Manager, etc.)
* Please allow to disable or enable each component or scale their performance
3. Network-Manager to configure different profiles for networks (WAN and LAN), Bridging
4. Monitor-Manager (resolution, different monitors, etc.)
5. Sound-Manager
6. User/Groups-Manager
7. Pakage-Manager
8. Software-Manager for non Ubuntu-Software (to open files, pixmaps, etc.)
9. Sessions-Manager
10. Time-Manager
11. USB-Manager to set what to do when a is attached (USB-Stick, USB-Cam, USB-Scanner, etc.)
12. Partitions-Manager
13. Theme-Manager (Wallpaper, Log-In-Window, Folders, show fileextension, GRUB-Theme, Compiz, Screensaver, fonts, windows, etc.)
And group the rest as tabs into those items.
Authentitification for restricted tabs requiered.
14. Printer-Manager to set default printer, paper, tray, etc.
15. DVD-Manager to manage behavior of DVDs inserted
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gabtrat wrote on the 22 Mar 08 at 06:59
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How about simply grouping system settings into several different category menus, similar to the Applications menu?
Using the same categories as in the Control Center there could be 6 different menus all settings all :
Personal
Look and Feel
Internet and Network
Hardware
System
Other
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Wiplash4 wrote on the 23 Mar 08 at 15:35
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That is oo general!
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Wiplash4 wrote on the 24 Mar 08 at 07:28
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In the last versions the Administration and Preferences have been changed, but it became overloaded.
Following items would suffice
1. Keyboard/Mouse-Manager
2. Hardware-Manager controlling all the Hardware (Bluetooth, Printer, RAM, Harddisks, Power-Manager, etc.)
* Please allow to disable or enable each component or scale their performance
3. Network-Manager to configure different profiles for networks (WAN and LAN), Bridging
4. Monitor-Manager (resolution, different monitors, etc.)
5. Sound-Manager
6. User/Groups-Manager
7. Pakage-Manager (including their Configuration like Wine or Sun)
8. Software-Manager for non Ubuntu-Software (to open files, pixmaps, etc.)
9. Sessions-Manager
10. Time-Manager
11. USB-Manager to set what to do when a is attached (USB-Stick, USB-Cam, USB-Scanner, etc.)
12. Partitions-Manager
13. Theme-Manager (Wallpaper, Log-In-Window, Folders, show fileextension, GRUB-Theme, Compiz, Screensaver, fonts, windows, etc.)
And group the rest as tabs into those items.
Authentitification for restricted tabs requiered.
14. Printer-Manager to set default printer, paper, tray, etc.
15. DVD-Manager to manage behavior of DVDs inserted
And please do not install all this software (Games, rhythmbox, gthumb, serpentine, CD/DVD creator, etc.) or the folders (Videos, etc.) which noone needs.
Add the VPNC to "Connect to Server" in "Places".
Please erase System Programs from Applications.
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flounder wrote on the 25 Mar 08 at 18:35
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The consolidation lists suggested by cramerx & mikemaccana are a good start. The important thing is to not draw an arbitrary line between tasks which require root access and those which don't.
If the Gnome developers are unresponsive/slow these subsets could be made tabs in a wrapper application which can be annotated with "This 'system' task impacts *all* users" so that the request for password authorization is given some context.
The gnome-control-center applet would make a good meta-wrapper for this reduced set of meta administration preferences tabbed applets at the start of the system menu optionally followed by the traditional menu model.
The gnome-control-center or equivalent functionality should be available from the root window (background) context menu (right click).
Removing functionality is rarely the right answer, but better organization and defaults is *always* the right answer. Bring back tear-off menus!!! /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_tearoff is broken!!!
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Wiplash4 wrote on the 26 Mar 08 at 22:03
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1. Hardware-Manager controlling all the Hardware (Bluetooth, Printer, RAM, Harddisks, Power-Manager, System Log, etc.)
* Please allow to disable or enable each component or scale their performance
2. Network-Manager to configure different profiles for networks (WAN and LAN, Bridging)
3. Monitor-Manager (resolution, different USB or DVI monitors, etc.)
4. Sound-Manager (Codecs, Outputs, Inputs)
5. Profile-Manager for Users, Groups, Sessions, Services
6. Pakage-Manager (including their Configuration like Wine or Sun)
7. Software-Manager for non Ubuntu-Software (to open files, pixmaps, etc.)
8. Time-Manager
9. Peripheri-Manager to set what to do when a is attached (USB-Printer, USB-Cam, USB-Scanner, Keyboard, Mouse, Tablets, etc.)
10. Partitions-Manager
11. Theme-Manager (Wallpaper, Log-In-Window, Folders, show fileextension, GRUB-Theme, Compiz, Screensaver, fonts, windows, etc.)
And group the rest as tabs into those items.
Authentitification for restricted tabs requiered.
12. Storage-Manager to manage behavior of DVD/BluRay/USB-Stick or other storage devices inserted
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Ape wrote on the 5 Apr 08 at 07:55
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There should be more submenus or categories so it would look simpler and everything would be easier to find.
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loki wrote on the 6 Apr 08 at 07:47
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Keep is simple and complete... Can we have both? e.g. some kind of grouping method(more submenu's) and and option to see them all in one view?
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Nazo wrote on the 3 May 08 at 10:20
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+----------+-------------------+
| Hardware | Timer Device | // DateTime
| Power Device |
| Memory Device |
| Operation Device | // Keyboard, Mouse, Stick, Tablet
| Storage Device | // Harddisk, SDD, Web Storage // Partition
| Image Device | // Display, Scanner, Camera, Printer
| Sound Device | // Microphone, Speaker, Headphone, Earphone
| Connection Device | // Network, Bluetooth, Programmable USB Device, etc...
+-------------------+
+----------+
| Hardware |
+----------+-------------------+
| Software + Package | // Software Source
| Codec |
| Restricted Driver |
| Language |
| Fav Applications |
| Sessions |
| Authorizations | // Keyring
| Dictionary | // IME
| Input Method |
| Desktop Search |
| Accessibility |
+-------------------+
+----------+
| Software |
+----------+-------------------+
| Theme | Window | // Control, Compiz
| Desktop | // Wallpaper
| Login | // GDM
| Boot |
| Bootloader | // Grub
+-------------------+
+----------+
| Theme |
+----------+--------------------+
| Profile | Users |
| Groups |
+--------------------+
+----------+
| Profile |
+----------+--------------------+
| System | Monitor | // Log
| Hardware Testing |
| Services |
| Root Terminal |
| Backup Tools |
| Sync Tools |
| Network Tools |
+--------------------+
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neyuru wrote on the 4 May 08 at 02:07
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I found your idea very complete, I propose my own (8021) as a duplicate for this one. I wish future versions of Ubuntu wouldn't have duplicate applications that just make users confused in the great sea of free programs out there.
THUMBS UP FOR YOUR POST!
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Popoi wrote on the 10 May 08 at 04:47
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Just great idea!
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sdmatt1975 wrote on the 20 May 08 at 04:40
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Yeah Merge "admin" and "preferences" and color code the text to indicate whether a given utility is system wide or end user. Ie; system wide could be red text and end user could be blue.
Then put the thing under system tools in the applications menu.
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TWO wrote on the 6 Jun 08 at 00:35
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A recent update seems to have put Control Centre as an option under the system menu...
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yussri wrote on the 23 Jun 08 at 07:33
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I totally agree with this & I believe it is very essential towards easy & flexible GUI for users I have been using UBUNTU for so long & am still missing some options in the menus , so I agree to the following
1- emerge both preference & administration ( We could use the policy kit ) also renaming them to more indicative names should clear up all fuzz
2- emerge all related items such as ( screen - screen saver , screen resolutions , etc ) so when we are interested in particular task ( adjusting our screen for e.g ) we need not to jump through items
3- the user GUI should be simple & logic driven for new users
so when Joe has a problem with his display he would easily check it from one place ( Menu )
4- Redesigning our panels & menus might save us a lot of memory consumptions ( as reported as a bug I guess that Gnome-Panel is memory hungry taking more than 22 MB in my case )
am very interested to see this change in this area right on time as after the huge adoption of UBUNTU by users usually fleeing from windows , let's make life easier for them
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serantos wrote on the 28 Jun 08 at 09:49
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Want do you think of creating a Web-Interface for every setting,
like:
localhost:9000/admin/screensaver.html?style=blank&color=blue
to set the screensaver to the one that just blanks the screen.
This allows everybody to create his own design of the administration interface with plain html pages.
The administration would become themable.
These designs/themes could be collected and we could vote on them like we vote on brainstorm ideas. But these designs/themes don't just variate in color but also in strukture!
Every strukture is possible and the best will be found.
Unfortunately, plain html is not enough as e.g. the screensaver should not be hard-coded.
So some web-framework should provide the dynamic part.
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Cristiano wrote on the 28 Jun 08 at 15:43
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I found your idea very complete, I propose my own (8021) as a duplicate for this one. aşk I wish future versions of Ubuntu wouldn't have duplicate applications that just make users confused in the great sea of free programs out there.
THUMBS UP FOR YOUR POST!
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Post your comment
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Blueprint system-menu-cleanup:
Ubuntuforums.org thread #736475
