Developer comments
To be honest, I really don't like this idea. The clear separation between "user data/permissions" and administration is a very strong point in Unix/Linux, and we should keep it. Providing a button for "give me a super-power nautilus" is too blunt, and subverts
(a) our efforts to provide the necessary administrative bits through appropriate UI (like NetworkManager),
(b) our efforts to provide more fine-grained privileges (PolicyKit) and eventually get rid of gksu, and
(c) leads into the Administrator madness Windows users have to endure.
I'd rather collect use cases why users need to run nautilus as root in the first place, and eliminate those.
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Absolutely agree... I never tought of "sudo nautilus" though... I yust always uttered some profanity and reverted to the CLI... how dumb of me!
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bikeboy
wrote on the 12 Mar 08 at 10:46
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Look for this feature in Hardy +1, as a result of the improvements that are currently being built into Gnome (gvfs). It will supposedly be possible then.
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Also, if users are not in sudoers group, it should ask for an administrator username & password (This is how Apple OS X works.).
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amiga_os
wrote on the 12 Mar 08 at 13:38
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This is especially extremely irritating if you try and empty the Deleted items folder, only to find a file or folder in there that requires sudo access...
And it's a major faff to then sudo nautilus, turn on hidden files and folders, go to the .Trash, then delete your file.
The problem also happens if you try and remove a connected disk with something in the .Trash that's not yours.
A gksudo box, then performing the action, would be a sensible way around a number of problems like this.
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Great idea! That is the Ubuntu (and Linux) spirit!
Innovation now happens in opensource, not like the old times in proprietary stuff.
+1
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I've torched my system using gksu nautilus! :p
+1
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This is a big one for me.
When I want to do something I should be able to. If there are security issues then simply asking for a password is way better than having a user research the net to figure out how to do it.
Put in warnings if necessary, but the ability should be there as well.
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deejross
wrote on the 26 Jun 08 at 13:21
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In response to the Developer's comments on use cases...here's mine:
I don't know much about how PolicyKit works, so if this comment recommends something that PolicyKit will fix, then you can ignore it.
If you need to edit a config file outside of the /home directory, normal users browse to the file and open it, only to find it's read-only. So now they only have two options, open a terminal and, for example, type "gksudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf". The other option is to open nautilus using gksudo.
Another case, which follows the same guidelines is setting permissions on files, for example if you run a web server, you have to set the permissions on the /var/www directory to make sure your user has write access if you plan on doing web development.
Bottom line is, it's cumbersome to find the file you want to edit, only to find you need root privileges and have to retrace your steps once you've gotten those privileges.
If PolicyKit fixes this, I'd be totally happy. But this is one of those things that prevents people from moving from a less-restrictive operating system (albeit, insecure). There has to be a way to do this safely and securely, without requiring the user to open a terminal or jump through hoops.
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_alex_
wrote on the 28 Jun 08 at 03:51
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I'd like to second everything deejross said. In fact any time I try to do something that requires super user privileges a dialog along the lines of "You need administrative privileges to perform this task. Pleas enter your password:" should pop up. I don't see how this would be at all related to the "administrator madness in vista". The fact is if I need super user privileges to do something then well I need them, and not showing the gksudo type dialog is not "fixing" the "administrator madness", it's just making things more cumbersome for me (as deejross adequately explained).
You can collect use cases as much as you want, but the fact remains that there will always be cases when you need to switch to administrative privileges, and whenever that time comes, a gksudo type dialog should be displayed right there and then. This is how OS X does it, and how Vista does it, and they did it for a reason (i.e., their own use cases), so why should it be different for us?
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scuba
wrote on the 26 Aug 08 at 18:23
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As deejross and _alex_ has pointed out, if you need the privileges for something it is hassle to need the console to fix something that is better done graphically in an user environment.
Having an easy way of becoming superuser
or
Open terminal browse, type sudo package /path/to/item/can/be/very/frustrating/sometimes
Which one should Ubuntu as user friendly environment go for?
If I'm not mistaken, PolicyKit only fixes the problem if the developers use it. In the mix between all the Linux platforms that would mean a lot of hassle and poorly implemented software.
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This is a great idea. Ignore the developer and reopen it.
Ideally, users would never have to modify system files to get their computers to work. Until that day, we need to make it as easy as possible to get things working.
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awalton
wrote on the 11 Sep 08 at 14:28
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"This is a great idea. Ignore the developer and reopen it."
Right, and who exactly will do the work?
It's a bad idea. We should be working towards fine-grained permissions like that in PolicyKit, not like those of gksudo. That's where the Nautilus developers will be working in the future, anyways.
Done right, this means no terminal necessary, just like in e.g. Mac OS X and Vista; you type your password into a dialog to acknowledge that you want to do Administrative Task X, it is done.
GKSudo is a hammer, everything's a nail. And it really hurts when you hit your thumb with it. We'd rather use precision screwdrivers.
-A. Walton
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r0g
wrote on the 12 Sep 08 at 02:59
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OK Mr I think you 438 people are morons, I'll give you a use case!
I want to edit a config file, I don't have permission, I don't want to have to START A GOD DAMNED COMMAND PROMPT UP TO DO IT!
>is too blunt, and subverts
(a) our efforts to provide the necessary administrative bits through appropriate UI (like NetworkManager),
(b) our efforts to provide more fine-grained privileges (PolicyKit) and eventually get rid of gksu, and
(c) leads into the Administrator madness Windows users have to endure.
BOLLOCKS! This get in my way on a daily basis and leads to EVERYONE who writes how-tos and tutorials about Ubuntu sticking loads of command line stuff in them which in turn both scares and alienates thousands if not MILLIONS of people who might otherwise give ubuntu a shot. This administrator/user paradigm is bogus on the desktop for the most part anyway. Do a survey and find out in how many cases they are one in the same person, yes that's right - almost all of them.
This is quite possibly the MOST needed feature in ANY desktop Linux and it's deeply patronising to suggest users aren't responsible enough to have such power at their fingertips. Why did we move to this OS eh!? Oh, yes, I remember now, to get away from the patriarchal, patronising, childproof, don't-let-those-'users'-have-too-much-power-or-we'll-have-to-deal-with-more-dam ned-support-calls mentality we were all so sick of from Microsoft.
This (and the several duplicates there are of this) should be re-opened and merged right now. This isn't a bug, it's a feature request and lot's of people seem to want it. This site is supposed to be about what people want is it not???
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aysiu
(Brainstorm moderator)
wrote on the 12 Sep 08 at 03:30
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Whether the authentication dialogue invokes gksudo or PolicyKit, who cares?
The dialogue should still appear.
If someone in the admin group double-clicks the /etc/fstab file to edit and then tries to save and is told it's not modifiable, that's annoying. If PolicyKit allows that user to authenticate for only that file with only Gedit, great. If not, then use gksudo instead.
Why is this such a big deal to developers?
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Please don't create a Windows-Vista-like feature that trains users to hand out their root password to every app that asks for it. There should be only one door for privilege escalation, and the user must pass through it on his own. Further, apps should not "remember" a series of commands to perform as soon as they gets more privileges. The user must initiate actions in escalated privilege mode.
I'm not opposed to a more clear central graphical place to escalate privileges, as long as apps don't say "just enter your password and then I'll do my job". Apps should say "go get permission and then ask me again".
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