Idea
#403: Improve file/folder sharing experience (Samba)
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2710
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Written by bartong the 29 Feb 08 at 01:35.
Category: Internet & Networking.
Related to:
Nothing/Others.
Status: New
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Description
Currently it is very difficult to setup and control access to shared folders without editing conf files and reading detailed instructions on all the variables. I propose that sharing (specifically Samba) be given a well worked GUI and some real TLC to bring it up to standard with the experience on Windows or OS X.
For example, by default a share should be accessible as Read Only by anyone on the network without a username or password (guest access). While guest access should be turned on by default, it should also be easy to turn it off, and if desired to give guests read/write access to the folder.
You should also be able to specify local users who will have read/write access, and these local users should sync with smb users invisibly (ie: the user doesn't need to know that there are two password databases being used).
I propose the Properties window for a folder should contain a Sharing tab with all the options available to choose. I also propose a Shared Folders option in the Preferences menu should list the currently shared folders along with their settings, and provide a button to take you into the dialogue where you can set the options.
Attachments
 Bug #14774 : [shares-admin] Shared folders requires a login
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Duplicates
Comments
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ubee wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 01:42
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I would like to connect to a shared folder that is hosted on my Windows machine. Easily.
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Ralf.Nieuwenhuijsen wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 05:22
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The problem is not lack of configuration. Its lack of sane defaults. It should just fucking work. (tm)
But i've been to the launchpad and well, they know the solution.
We just need a different default for shared folders.
Maybe they will implement this tiny little change. But they mistakingly think its minor a thing. Those in charge rather spent time explaining to us why our solution is not correct.
Then after years finally suggest that there also exists a correct solution. They really need a server guy that takes care of desktop too. Cuz the current team obviously didn't care. It's one of the most high profile fuckup bugs that could be fixed with a single line. (which is Bad user = guest login)
One of the most dissapointing experiences on launchpad EVER.
They took hours of their life explaining why security=share is wrong. Well, hey, they are the experts. So, they finally say well hey, it should just use 'bad user = guest' ...
Well, nice going Mr. Expert. So why wasn't this like fixed in fucking Breezy then? Everybody uses samba. Everybody is still hacking text-files.
What good is their superior knowledge of these server experts when they act like that? They are on a fucking payroll, we're not even talking volunteers here.
Arg. Enough frustration.
If you get them to fix this, you are my hero.
Maybe we should just remove the terminal from the setup of these server guys. Maybe then they'll do something about the broken GUI's.
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jamessnell wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 05:43
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This doesn't sound too far from the status quo. The samba config util makes adding shares and users fairly easy. Perhaps all it really needs is just more options and different defaults.
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lien_meat wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 09:29
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Yep...more options, different defaults is EXACTLY what is needed. security=share is perfect for most people who are used to using windows. There needs to be options in the gui to let certain users write or have read access a folder as well. I think these settings/options would make editing the conf file occur much less. I'm REALLY good at hacking smb.conf, I've set it up tons of times, but if the interface was just a tish better, I'd rarely if ever need to.
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captainpugwash wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 09:29
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The whole networking thing is too hard and clumsy.
Wiondows XP has wizards and most of the time it just works.
My understanding is Microsoft have now released their network protocols so It is something that there really is no excuse for.
The other issue about simple and SECURE networking is that complicated Terminal based networking configurations can be hard to check whether they are set correctly and there for secure on a network.
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jiu wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 12:48
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further to original post, I'd say even when you have rtfm, it's still really hard to get it to work.
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GiraffeNecktie wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 14:00
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This is the kind of thing that really kills Ubuntu. You give people a superficially nice experience, all clean and tidy and then when they try to actually get something done like share some folders in the workgroup they fall down the friggin rabbithole into configuration hell.
This is stuff that "just works" in the Mac and Windows world, it's about time Ubuntu caught up
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FistCar wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 18:46
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I have always found it annoying that there is a GUI that says it will configure Samba for you, yet it never makes the Samba user, and does not inform the user to even do so.
I know what needs to be done, my Grandpa just gets confused.
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cornbread wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 19:51
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Make it as easy as windows xp!
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rawsausage wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 22:03
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Just fyi.
You should never use the share security ACLs on the Windows side (not talking about your Linux side here!). The shares should be always entirely open and the access should be controlled by NTFS ACLs. Some clients are able to bypass the share ACLs for files that are deeper - the share ACLs were never designed to be reliably evaluated deeper. This is one of the very first things they teach you in the courses if you start going for the Microsoft's server certifications. I have also seen that happen in real world even though it doesn't seem to work with some basic simple tests.
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ShadowVlican wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 05:16
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yes, make it as easy as Windows XP!
all i have to do in WinXP is click "Share this folder on the network" and BAM, all my computers can instantly see it
better yet, also include a "Allow network users to change my files" checkbox as well!
i shouldn't have to fiddle with ANY CONF or retarded text files to get file sharing working in this day of age!!
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mmeiser wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 07:53
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I'd still consider myself a newb to ubuntu starting out with 6.x and now playing with 8.04... but I would consider myself an advanced samba user simply because I've had to be.
Managing shares and mounts with samba has a great number of holes even in 8.04.
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larrydart wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 13:36
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"i shouldn't have to fiddle with ANY CONF or retarded text files to get file sharing working in this day of age!!"
What should you be doing "in this day of age"? Have you ever tried to alter the config files in your beloved XP?
"Make it like XP" You cannot be serious.
What you're really saying is, "I can't be bothered, I'm too lazy, I don't want to know or learn. Give me a nice simple little window that I can click on. Who cares what really happens when I do this. I'm a USER I've not time."
Guess what? I discovered a magical solution to this problem. It's a little known and used thing called Google. You type in what you want to search for, using your "retarded" keyboard and wow, as if by magic you find the answer in forums, documentation (retarded textfiles). In less than five minutes it all works - sharing ("just like XP") between Windows and other Linux machines.
I hope more people will start to use this little known option to solve their problems.
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Coralin wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 17:24
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Larrydart- Wow. Way to "help" without actually helping. And way to forward the discussion.
Anyway-
Isn't the goal of Ubuntu to become "the people's linux," in essence? If so, then we really SHOULD try and make things "Like XP" and "Like OSX"- open a gui, click a button, maybe a checkbox or two, and BAM- folders are shared. As is, I'd say this is a pretty good reason for a lot of people that really SHOULD be using ubuntu/linux at home or in their small office switch back to MS/Apple. We should focus on getting the majority of the "everyday" features under a nice, simple, easy-to-use GUI, while allowing advanced users to delve into the guts; once that's done, start adding new bells and whistles.
Thus, obviously, I'm all for this idea. Easy-to-use OUT OF THE BOX samba would be a beautiful thing.
(Personally, if a feature is supposed to be an every-day thing, and/or is something you would expect a new linux user swapping from windows/mac to want to do, we should have an interface that makes it easy, not one that requires them to "RTFM.")
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BlueFiberOptics wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 18:32
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Linux Mint is one of the few Linux distributions that comes with FUSEsmb configured and working out of the box. From day 1 I was able to go to my Home folder, hit Network, and access my other computers and run video files off of them.
One can configure Ubuntu to do this, but there really should b e an out of the box easy to use experience.
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Aceler wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 23:00
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BTW, it can be more than one protocol. User will be able to switch between choices - for example - Samba (Windows (R) compatible) and NFS (fast) or ssh (secure) or more. At last, Ubuntu is not Windows, it can support more than only one way.
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jrusinek wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 13:38
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Dig into smb.conf with nautilus-share's README and then use Nautilus to share folders (; .
Already in Fedora repos, by me :P .
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rugby471 wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 15:34
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Maybe to include something like LinNeighbourhood so if the user isn't using Nautilus there is a way to mount shares?
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rhoderickj wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 03:31
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Larry,
Yes, I am lazy. And no, I don't want to learn Samba just to share files on a Windows network. Give me a freaking break. This should just work. Period. End of discussion. Goodbye.
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bartong wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 12:25
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Just a quick reminder to keep it friendly guys!
Also bear in mind that Brainstorm is meant to be an ideas site for 'non-technical' users, thus I think that any comments pushing the use of Terminal or espousing the editing of conf files do not belong here. I don't suggest that it is not a great idea for new Ubuntu users to learn the command line, but we should aim to get the OS to a level were all the basic, and even most of the advanced, functions can be performed thru the GUI. In this particular topic that goal is focusing on file sharing (again with most of the focus on Samba, simply as it has the greatest cross platform compatibility, Windows, Linux, OS X.)
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deejross wrote on the 4 Mar 08 at 18:25
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I agree that moving away from the command-line is a goal of Ubuntu. It's meant to be for human beings, and humans like easy. Learning to edit smb.conf just to share out a folder or two is unfriendly and novice users see it as a weakness of Linux. Many people don't want to learn about the underlying technology, they just want it to work. This is why Macs have become so popular...it just works with you, not against you. Though when it comes to customization, Macs fail horribly. This is how Ubuntu can beat both Mac and Windows.
Tell me that this wouldn't be a great tagline for Ubuntu in the future: More customizable than Windows, more user-friendly than Macs.
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strixy wrote on the 7 Mar 08 at 14:55
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I just went to do this for the first time on the weekend. What a mess. I've got one Ubuntu box, 2 Mepis boxes and a Mythbuntu front end to play with.
Please, for the love of all that is binary and source, make Samba sane!
I dropped Samba out of the equation and setup an SSH + sFTP server/client model instead. That was easier than this supposed Samba monster which, in theory, is very similar to FTP.
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kmieciu wrote on the 16 Mar 08 at 19:07
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Easy file sharing is one of the things I'd like to see in Ubuntu. I don't use it now because it's too complex to setup.
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gsiliceo wrote on the 13 Apr 08 at 19:12
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I hate that the shared folders gui doesnt do anything at all to share with windows, the problem is not lazy people o if its easy o hard, its the time it takes.
Windows xp, 20 seconds to share a folder.
Ubuntu, between googling, understanding how the thing works, and making the changes, and restarting the samba file, 15 minutes.
Productivity goes to the trash with this things.
Even if you know what you are doing is slower.
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ant2ne wrote on the 13 Apr 08 at 23:43
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I've got several Linux bookas and O'Reilly's Using Samba. Setting it up is still a PITA. This GUI tool needs to have samba permissions as well as FS permission settings. (Much like the Windows Right Click -> Properties -> Share & Securities tabs.) Samba is a requirement in this Windows dominated world!
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drinkypoo wrote on the 8 May 08 at 15:07
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As far as I can tell the problem isn't so hard as you make it out to be, but I agree with the need for a sharing tab. Samba is one of those things which should be a checkbox during the install, and easy to find later. I envision something in between OSX and Windows; Windows has the add/remove programs tool, which has the add/remove windows components option. OSX has the network services list (forget what it's called) where you can enable services by a human-readable name. None of this prevents you from manually installing the virtual packages. I COMPLETELY disagree with the statement that Ubuntu should be moving away from the command-line, though. The config tools need to author bog-standard config files so that everything can conveniently be managed with other standard tools...
The point is that you should never HAVE to go to the CLI to get something done. Once you've reached that point, you've failed the GUI-only user. However, if you make it so you can't do everything from the CLI, then you've failed everyone else.
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Endolith wrote on the 14 May 08 at 21:00
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If you want to edit text files as a superuser and enter commands into a terminal just to make file sharing work, please find another distro. Leave Ubuntu alone, so that we can use sane defaults and actually use our computers to get real things done.
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Endolith wrote on the 14 May 08 at 21:02
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"Tell me that this wouldn't be a great tagline for Ubuntu in the future: More customizable than Windows, more user-friendly than Macs."
.. while simultaneously being more secure than both. It can be done; the only thing stopping it is lack of imagination and a rigid adherence to doing things the way they've always been done.
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doobydave wrote on the 12 Jun 08 at 13:30
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Where has the 'shared folders' GUI gone in Hardy?
I think it's important to be able to manage all shares from a single place, rather than having them buried within Nautilus.
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browner wrote on the 12 Jul 08 at 21:15
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[quote]Where has the 'shared folders' GUI gone in Hardy?
I think it's important to be able to manage all shares from a single place, rather than having them buried within Nautilus.[/quote]
Amen!
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baruch60610 wrote on the 24 Aug 08 at 12:15
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@larrydart, your comments reflect an attitude that has been largely instrumental in keeping Linux from reaching lots of people.
I've been using Linux since late 1999. I had lots of fun playing around and tweaking various config files and whatnot. However, I program for entertainment, build them, etc.
Most people just want to use the damned things, not build them or tinker with them. It's not "laziness" to want to be able to accomplish tasks without having to dig into the guts of the system and learn a whole technology. People shouldn't have to become a network administrator, just to have their computers talk to one another.
You wouldn't expect someone to learn about electronics, just to use their TV or cell phone. You wouldn't expect someone to become an auto mechanic just so they can drive. Why should someone have to become a computer geek just to have two computers talk to one another? It's wrong and it's simply not going to happen. It's not stupidity or laziness, it's that many people have other things to do than fsck around with their computers.
Yes, people are too "lazy" to learn Samba and other networking technology. There is absolutely no reason to require anyone to learn this stuff, if they don't want to. The technology is already there to make this a matter of a few check boxes, possibly with a little bit of help text for the perplexed. No one is going to take away your precious conf files if you want them, but there is not a single reason to require anyone to use them if they're not interested.
Claiming that a user can simply Google a question is unhelpful. They shouldn't have to do that. They shouldn't have to bother their heads with these questions, because the choices are simple, and can be represented in a GUI with a minimum of effort. Basically, there is no reason why the problem should exist in the first place; much less should someone have to dig around or Google the issue to solve it.
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Endolith wrote on the 26 Aug 08 at 15:39
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Agreed 100% with baruch60610
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bvidinli wrote on the 1 Sep 08 at 21:26
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samba is somewhat windows..
why do we still deal with windows ?
Ubuntu or Linux should improve its own sharing...
Giving our concentration to Linux is much better then trying to adapt Windows...
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nitrofurano wrote on the 1 Sep 08 at 22:11
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one thing were missing for me is an easy filesystem networking with wireless connections, just like with a LAN connection - is this possible on Linux (specially Ubuntu) anyway?
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kadirsezar wrote on the 3 Sep 08 at 18:56
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Linux Mint is one of the few Linux distributions that comes with FUSEsmb configured and working out of the box. From day 1 I was able to go to my Home folder, hit Network, and access my other computers and run video files off of them
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