Developer comments
Attacks the problem from the wrong angle. I don't think many users would care about a "codec manager", that sounds very much like a geek tool. Heck, *I* wouldn't care about a codec manager. I care about watching my videos. :-)
To me this already seems solved very elegantly with the existing easy-codec-installation.
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dark
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 00:46
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Don't we already have this with Codec Buddy in a way?
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mm
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 01:28
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Just installing ubuntu-restricted-extras from multiverse gives you access to a lot of codecs.
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johnp
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 02:08
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I think a wizard would be a good idea for this, to ask the user and do it all in one spot that can be easily demostrated rather than searching for codecs in repositories.
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dburanen
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 02:51
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Totem does this in gutsy.
Rhythmbox now also does this in hardy.
-1 since the functionality is already there
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drsaamah
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 02:53
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Since it seems that this issue is still extremely misunderstood...
Ubuntu cannot legally incorporate a feature to "manage" restricted formats such as mp3, mpeg, etc etc. In order for them to do this they would have to pay for licenses which translates to us paying for an operating system. Afterall, the Ubuntu website does a great job of instructing exactly how to add the medibuntu repositories to your source list. I knew nothing about the terminal when I first switched to Ubuntu and the website instructions were so clear that after twenty minutes I was playing my mp3 library through totem.
I understand the "just work" expectations that many people coming to linux have, and I think its a GREAT attitude because it forces our community to improve the software we use. However, we must also recognize the borders and restrictions that are placed on us by the society we live in. Its not Canonical fault that this feature isn't incorporated. Its the fault of copyright/patent system our society has in place.
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rca123
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 03:30
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How about displaying a link to an easy to the explanation website (making something up here...) such as codecs.ubuntu.com or media.ubuntu.com that is displayed during installation or on first boot? Instead of a user finding out the hard way that something doesn't work, the installer could say something short and sweet like:
"Due to licensing restrictions, Ubuntu is unable to install software that will allow you to play certain types of music and video files. For simple instructions on how to enable playing these files, visit codecs.ubuntu.com"
I do like the idea of a separate codec manager as well. I've been using linux exclusively for 5+ years and can never remember which codecs I have or have not installed since a new install.
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What would be nice is to have a single codec metapackage that pulls in all the relevant codecs etc as dependencies. This could sit in the Universe repository.
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intarwub
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 04:07
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Totem does this in gutsy.
Rhythmbox now also does this in hardy.
-1 since the functionality is already there
I think codec management is something the operating system should handle, not an individual application.
What happens when a noob (like myself) opens another application besides the two you mentioned? The music won't play, the video yacks. I get that "oh crap now I have to start hunting" feeling.
Since it seems that this issue is still extremely misunderstood...
Ubuntu cannot legally incorporate a feature to "manage" restricted formats such as mp3...
I hadn't given much thought to the licensing problem.
But the manager would be managing codecs, in a generic sense. I am not sure if this abstraction gets around the possible legal issues.
The manager could call some kind of service on the web for a list of the available codecs.
Use Case: Enable file-format playback.
1. User starts the codec manager.
2. System calls some-service for a list of common file formats and codecs.
3. System displays the list of installed and available codecs.
4. User selects file-format.
5. User selects their preferred codec, clicks apply.
6. Download, install, done.
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1. Totem does this and so will rhythmbox. They will automatically suggest to install codecs.
2. There is a all-in metapackage that will install everything that can somewhat legally be installed.
3. Hardy will feature apt-sources-link. You should be able to click a link on medibuntu's page and install/update/enable all definately illegal codecs at once.
Intarwub, I assume the first thing you do with a fresh ubuntu is install codecs using some hacky kind of way. (automatix comes to mind). You assume this has never been fixed, but you never bothered to try and find out.
The real ubuntu brainstorm suggestion: how we make sure people notice we fix things and stop suggesting to fix them? Maybe they should force you to read all the release notes of all the last 5 releases before you are allowed to submit a feature request here?
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intarwub
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 04:13
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Sorry about the messiness of my last comment. Apparently you can't edit comments once they have been submitted.
I was replying to the comments by dburanen and drsaamah.
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sparc128
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 05:16
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I suggest poster of this :
"Due to licensing restrictions, Ubuntu is unable to install software that will allow you to play certain types of music and video files. For simple instructions on how to enable playing these files, visit codecs.ubuntu.com"
create new brainstorm item for this so everyone can vote on this since it's different than original suggestion. I would also vote for it....
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neon
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 06:26
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I believe in the new rewrite of the Restricted Drivers management thingie they said they'd include this.
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Jastiv
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 07:21
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This is related to codecs, but why oh why does ubuntu not have a program that converts other formats (such as midi and wav) into ogg. I know they have this beta version of audacity, but that won't convert things into ogg, That is what I want. Ogg is a free format, so I don't see why they can't just include it, or at least make sure that such a program is in the package manager.
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Good idea, but make sure that if the toxic codecs (e.g. WMV and WMA) are included, they should be accompanied by disclaimers that the user must agree to before installing and before the first use (for each user on the system) The disclaimer should point out the resulting limitations of freedom the user is electing and that the result of these actions make the net a tiny fraction more expensive to use for everybody.
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ssam
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 09:49
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meh, why not just install new codecs as they are needed, which is what ubuntu does now.
though it would be nice to be able to choose the fluendo codecs, and easily install those.
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scapor
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 09:56
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We don't need all these "managers". If you really want to "manage" codecs, go work for fluendo or st. Codecs should be installed by default if legally possible or installed upon first use if the user desires this.
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deejross
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 12:34
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Well, in Gusty anyways, if you are using the totem-xine package, the codec manager does not work, and you are forced to figure out what's wrong on your own. Maybe at the very least, the should make the codec manager work for both totem-xine and totem-gstreamer.
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MarkL
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 12:51
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I understand the legal issues, and I know that the repositories exist, and I know that the applications (attempt to) install needed codecs automatically.
But, it took me (a newbie) 3 hours to get a DVD playing after a new install yesterday.
Could we not have a shortcut on the desktop to a web page called 'Codec Info' or 'Installing Codecs' with all the info and links (or Google searches) required to get music, vids and DVDs playing (and maybe a script to add the necessary repositories)? Just a shortcut to the Ubuntu help website that Google sent me to would do. And yes, info on libdvdcss, libdvdread, and libdvdnav is also necessary.
Just need the info easier to get to.
And what happened to Easy Ubuntu exactly?
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eean
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 15:29
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Dealing with "codecs" is something only Windows geeks should have to deal with.
The way it works now where all codecs without patent problems are installed by default, and another package to get the rest is good. Perhaps the latter package needs to include more stuff (DVD playing, Real), but having a "Codec Manager" is just silly. This is Linux, we have a package manager.
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fyo
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 15:48
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For those who say Totem can already do this: No, it cannot. It can, to some extent, download codecs, but there is precious little information and no choice.
For those who say it shouldn't be there to begin with: Yes, it should. It should be possible to manage codecs explicitly and *globally* in such a way as to allow choices between multiple codecs, setting options in codecs, as well as getting information about the codec or fourcc in general. (And Totem does none of this).
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sem7ex
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 15:51
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mplayer and vlc also do a very good job for video and audio files.
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rlipman
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 17:32
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Totem does this in gutsy.
Rhythmbox now also does this in hardy.
-1 since the functionality is already there
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Ozzi Lee
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 17:51
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Whatever the resolution of this might be, I'd like to point out that probably 95% of people have no idea what a "codec" is. For example, providing a link a on the desktop called "Installing Codecs" will be absolutely no help to someone trying to play a DVD for the first time.
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thomaswm
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 18:25
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When I tried to play a video file (don't remember the file format) on my new Ubuntu installation, Totem told me the codec was missing an listed two packages I should install in order to get the file played.
So I think we don't need some kind of additional wizard.
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This is already quite complex (10 steps to install mp3..) Since everybody nowadays has mp3s (and other proprietary files..), I suggest to just ask during the installation if the user wants to install codecs for mp3, dvd, aac, etc (default answer must be yes, since not every user knows what this means)
There should also be a help button which explains that you are not able to watch dvds, play mp3s, etc if you choose no and the problems with proprietary file formats should be explained very briefly.
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Lee
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 20:07
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I think there should NOT be a codec manager. Codecs are software. Software is distributed in packages. Packages have a package manager. Problem solved.
If someone thinks it's too hard to suggest packages to a user based on what they're trying to do at that moment (say, watch a DivX video), then a lightweight suggestion box that interfaces with DBus and the package manager would make more sense, and be much more generally applicable.
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The codecs manager I think should just be a GUI that is similar to the add/remove programs or something like that in the sense that it's a package manager that JUST shows codecs instead of every single package available.
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According to these comments, adding a category called "Codecs" to Add/Remove would also work.
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@drsaamah: "... I knew nothing about the terminal when I first switched to Ubuntu and the website instructions were so clear that after twenty minutes I was playing my mp3 library through totem."
Do you really think that for a noob (MS$ user) this is normal ?? With respect to patent issues etc. it is normal that Ubuntu does NOT ship by default with MP3, WMA, DVD support. BUT: this doesn't mean that IF a user wants to install such support it has to be such a pain as it still is.
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or something based upon the ffmpeg open source project
these are the most frequently updated codes for encoding/decoding video
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I think the best solution here is that Ubuntu should inform its users better on getting the codecs, and why they cant in case its a restricted one.
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fyo
wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 15:38
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Read The Comments before you post, guys.
This functionality is NOT in Totem or Rythmbox. Repeating it doesn't make it so. Read previous comment(s) for details.
As for the "VLC" suggestion, that's just lame. VLC is a great app (although so ugly many people won't use it) and practically the only video player I use, but it doesn't obviate the need for codec management. In fact, if you want to use a different codec than what VLC has compiled in, you're out of luck.
And, lastly, CODEC MANAGER != PACKAGE MANAGER. It's very useful, and often quite necessary, to have multiple codecs installed that cover some of the same fourcc's (or can otherwise (en)code/decode the same content). A package manager is NOT well-suited for the job.
Equally, sometimes it's necessary to switch between codecs for a given file or fourcc. Again, not something that can or should be done with a package manager.
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probono
wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 18:03
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It should ask WAY less questions. Ideally, I'd just set it up to "always download whatever codecs might be needed" without being asked legalese stuff several times.
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Priority needs to be given to open codecs.
Toxic material like WMV and WMV need to be prefaced by warnings of what users are getting into, both at installation and the first time it is run (by each user).
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I like the idea of a codec manager. I agree with Lars Noodén, the user does need to be warned of the dangers that comes with some of the codecs. I heard somewhere, that owning a legal copy of Windows allows you to use its codecs legally on any other system. I'm not sure if this is true, but if it is, it needs to be noted on the codec manager since this is a major flaw troubling mainstream desktop linux these days.
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travis
wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 07:05
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Also better support for:
AVCHD
M2TS
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And Monkey's Audio and WavPack should also be supported, since flac isn't an only option for lossless format
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Add Theora and libavcodec.
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@Jastiv: There is one, "OggConvert" in Add/Remove.
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Talk of managers simply feels a bit like bloatcreep to me. How about a simple codec downloader that informs user of the legal blurb and gives the user a yes/no button? Something soooo simple?
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Even though the current way (double clicking a mp3, ask to download codecs) Is good, this can only improve the experience, so +1
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defmer
wrote on the 4 Mar 08 at 00:59
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Even with the existing video codec's, the quality is terrible. I have seen DVD videos which play beautiful on windows and are shitty in Ubuntu (Linux in general also).
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Cant xmms and vlc be made a part of a standard ubuntu installation? The two together can play most of the file formats, including the ones listed in this idea.
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6205
wrote on the 5 Mar 08 at 10:52
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Hey c'mon people. Why don't you just buy Fluendo codecs for nonfree media formats instead of instaling stolen w32codecs ???
Brainstorm is full of donation ideas, so why don't you donate to Fluendo by buying and support their development if you wanna be thankful...
For other formats like Matroska or various DivX can you use Mplayer or VLC (withou w32codecs...)
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=639393&highlight=fluendo
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dracus
wrote on the 5 Mar 08 at 13:29
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-1 we already have this ability when a codec can't be played in totem add remove opens and automatically finds the codecs we need. adding another wizard would simply bloat programs for no reason. Also we need to be careful how codecs are represented as in countries with Software patent laws most of these codecs are illegal to use with a Linux machine.
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fatahou
wrote on the 5 Mar 08 at 14:02
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"-1 we already have this ability when a codec can't be played in totem add remove opens and automatically finds the codecs we need. adding another wizard would simply bloat programs for no reason.
OF course now you can't use ubuntu as you want if you haven't access of the Web. You must use the Repositorys. RTU is here for provide you codecs and many applications where are not in the official DVD.
"Also we need to be careful how codecs are represented as in countries with Software patent laws most of these codecs are illegal to use with a Linux machine."
It's legal in france, i think that nobody have problems for the read of MP3 file on his personal computer.
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sedra
wrote on the 6 Mar 08 at 11:35
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why not installing Fluendo mp3 plugin for GStreamer it's LEGAL even in the US
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i think, what's most bothering me when use ubuntu to play a multimedia files is that ubuntu always has to connect to the internet first to get all the codecs.
Ubuntu should, by default, place all the (restricted) codecs in the installation cd, but not installed automatically when ubuntu is installed. So, when users want to play mp3 etc, all they have to do is insert the installation cd into cd-rom, and done.
thx ubuntu!
PS: pardon my poor english
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I want all audio players to be able to use all installed audio codecs.
I want all video players to be able to use all installed video codecs.
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mcwest
wrote on the 17 Mar 08 at 19:38
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This seems more user friendly but I'm a geek;) actually good idea but I'd remove some functionalities,now installing codecs is very easy but it can be easier.
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Wiplash4
wrote on the 20 Mar 08 at 14:31
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I think Codecs should be controled by the Sound-manager.
And why not install them all by default...
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The score of the idea sort of proves that brainstorm isn't really working.
All you need to do, is is install ubuntu-restricted-extra's.
They can't ship it by default, because it is not legal everywhere.
You have to install ONE freaking package in add/remove. That same package also installs java, flash, etc.
The auto-codec solution, where you have to click 'ok i want to install thingie i need to play my songie' is also pretty idiot proof.
Everybody here understood it, but you all think nobody else will. That there is a group of idiots below you. There is none. You are the bottom of the chain. And you can still figure it out.
So problem solved. Years ago.
UBUNTU-RESTRICTED-EXTRA's.
Type 'restricted' in add/remove.
Thank you for listening.
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hgibson
wrote on the 22 Mar 08 at 01:38
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To start with see the following;
http://www.ubuntu.sun.ac.za/wiki/index.php/Multimedia
and then;
http://www.ubuntu.sun.ac.za/wiki/index.php/Special:Popularpages
(check the copy and paste puts the link correctly into browser address bar, the text width of this submission is short ;-) any idea's anybody on this)
1. The wiki has been up for a long time. So the stats mean something.
2. Multimedia is the 5th most popular visited page. Why ?
Can we do something about it or not, tell the user during installation then. Simple. The user now knows beforehand and what to do about it.
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dmuir
wrote on the 18 Apr 08 at 04:20
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A Codec manager would be very useful. As fyo wrote, a Codec Manager != Package Manager. A codec might be installed via a Package Manager, but the package manager is not meant to allow you to tweak and configure codecs. It's like saying Compiz plugins should be managed through Synaptic.
I've found this to be an issue on Windows as well as Ubuntu. You install a codec, but then only some media players recognize it and use it. Some of this is probably related more to the media players themselves, but if there was a proper media codec api at the OS level, then this wouldn't be (as big) an issue. The same issue comes up when you install a newer version of a codec, and the media players still use the older version, which means having to track down the offending codec, and remove it = major pain.
The way that I would envisage the manager would be something like this:
You have a list of codecs with a configure button that lets you change settings for specific codecs.
You have another list of media streams, where you can set the default codec for that stream. eg, mp3, h264, aac
I say streams, because video format are made up of multiple streams and are not usually associated with the file type.
This means you could say something like when playing MP3's (a stream type and a file type) use LAME, or Fraunhoffer, but the same can't be said for AVI, which could use MP3 for the audio stream, but might be using AC3, or any number of audio codecs instead, let alone the plethora of video codecs.
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I would expect this to be done during installation, not afterward. Does it really make sense not to install all codecs for most popular formats?
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The current method (restricted-extras and totem auto-install) works well, but sometimes can be confusing for noob users...
Ubuntu _should_ do something like a manager...
If you ever read reviews or "I switched to linux" type blog stories, this is one of the main issues "I couldn't play MP3 or DVD out of the box etc"
We need a small package like "DVD support" for example that can prompt you to install the libdvdcss2 and/or setup the medibuntu repo...
Media,DVD,MP3 support package could open a window that says: "Due to legal issues patents etc, some countries have restricted access to the following software: blah blah blah etc" with a couple of buttons: [Add this software repository...] [Cancel...] [Buy a legal alternative...]
Where the last button links to a webpage (on say the ubuntu site or whatever) that is a list of companies providing legal codecs ... like fluendo etc
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antz29
wrote on the 2 Jun 08 at 11:06
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How about something like 'Media Settings'. This would allow you to add support for specific audio and video formats, and would inform users of 'freedom issues'. By calling it media settings most newbie users will be able to understand the purpose. It could also integrate settings for playing DVDs, audio CDs etc.
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I totally agree with antz29. It's true that a noob wouldn't need a media manager in general, but in the system settings, I want to be able to see at least what codecs are installed. I need to be able to manage them. They also should be system wide, and not bound to Totem or say mplayer or ffmpeg. When gstreamer finally gets the attention it needs, we are not too distant from this being implemented, but I certainly don't agree that this brainstorm idea is already implemented.
The situation as it is now is trying to _hide_ what codecs are installed. I agree the regular user doesn't need this information, but video makers do! And hey, we don't want video makers to use the command line to see what codecs are there, do we?
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edmon
wrote on the 6 Jul 08 at 20:18
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developer is wrong...it isn't wrong side of a problem...
in windows world is common to install something like k-lite codec pack for example...
so it is popular to have codec manager
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maynoth
wrote on the 22 Jul 08 at 14:01
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developer is wrong, I want a way to install and manage codecs, pdf, java, flash, etc installations. I get sick of using the command line to install 42,000 packages each time I reformat. I switched to linux mint because it has everything preinstalled with no headache. I nice restricted extra's manager gui would get me to switch back.
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Auzy
wrote on the 22 Jul 08 at 14:15
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If by easy installation you mean having to sort through thousands of packages in synaptic (with tens of thousands of packages that has nothing to do with codecs), confusing users, not providing a list of supported codecs or file formats, wanting users to go install random Xine packages, etc, then yeah, its done.
Thanks, but here on Vista even, I can install support for pretty much every format under the sun with 1 click (k-lite). Even a newbie user can install k-lite too (its easy). And, they can easily manage the codecs installed with it too.
Sorry, but I get what you mean, but saying this is done is a joke.
Try popping a DVD in the drive, nothing tells users why its not playing, and despite the details being documented on the OFFICIAL ubuntu website, they sure aren't provided to end users easily.
Hell, even I'm looking down synaptic at the moment, and there is no easy way to install all codecs currently. Nothings solved, behaviour isn't good, and feedback is confusing and sucks to users. The currently methods score a F- in usability class I am afraid.
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hmm well I've re-thought what I posted before (ahh the evolution of thought...)
And now I think a little application that lists all known media formats, and in the next column(s) it should display the state of your system e.g. program name handling the decoding, version, alternatives etc..
perhaps with buttons to launch installation if some support is missing:
Example (hmm not fixed width oh well)
------------------------------------------------------
Media Type | Application | Your Version | Actions
CSS DVDs | libdvdcss2 | not installed | [install]
MP3 Audio | somelibname | 3.2.4.23.45 | [reinstall] [remove]
------------------------------------------------------
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Auzy
wrote on the 4 Aug 08 at 00:53
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Actually, I disagree with myself at the moment, I tried it, and the package does work much better then the codec manager in some areas (we still may want auto-detection of files which need support added though). And we should also expose the restricted extras better (possibly during install?)
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scrondo
wrote on the 7 Sep 08 at 17:29
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Quote from TrioTorus (30 Jun 08 at 14:28)
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Götz
wrote on the 10 Nov 08 at 01:37
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In Kubuntu 8.10 this doesn't work.... so, it is NOT "Idea Implemented".
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I do not agree that this has been implemented. I have recently been supporting the install of a Ubuntu system for a friend, I am an experienced Ubuntu and was quite shocked at how hard it was to get the system runing in a way that the average user would expect. Getting the easy-codec-installation to run is quite a hit and miss afair, and it is not clear what it is for the average person.
New users just want a dialogue that tells them how to get their preferred codecs and plugins working, indeed the word codecs means nothing to them, they just want to be able to install mp3s, flash, and play DVDs. They don't care anything about whether things are proprietary or not. They just want to say yes to the terms and conditions and get on with it.
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