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cheesehead
(Brainstorm admin)
wrote on the 4 Jun 12 at 01:15
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Ubuntu normally does not create new distros. Instead, it occasionally adopts unofficial community efforts. So the best advice is 'go create it'. There are also intermediate measures for smaller customization like meta-packages and individual packages.
Approving for 30 days to gather community input.
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If Canonical were to try to do as you suggest, it would be competing head-on with Windows, Android, X-Box, Nintendo, Playstation, ...
I think that Ubuntu for Android may well side-step this problem.
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puxkggn
wrote on the 5 Jun 12 at 21:34
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If hardware manufacturers can modify the software we will get derivatives that work differently. Hereby undoing the advantage of Ubuntu as console software.
Currently all the consoles have proprietary hardware.
And they are not looking to use Ubuntu any time soon.
None of this makes much sense to me.
1.develop an Ubuntu compilation for consoles (involve gamers in decisions)
>What should be the focus of this? Is it supposed to run on consoles, or have libraries for games present or other option?
2.campaign for the new platform (mainly partners & developers)
>What platform are we talking about? Playstation 3 or Nintendo Wii with Ubuntu or something else?
3.cooperate with many partners (hardware producers)
>If it's about making a new platform and choosing hardware and software. Each hardware maker will want to use it's own hardware. Do you see the problem with that!
4.hardware manufacturers can modify the software (to differ from each other)
>This could cause a lot of confusion and problems for non technical people!
5.selling; support/updates; advertising
>People don't like this kind of stuff on consoles, especially the updating.
--> game console market gets open (more competitors, open standards)
>And another console. Isn't it simpler to stick to existing things?
--> more games for Ubuntu/Linux
>Only if the console mix doesn't changes too much from Ubuntu desktop.
--> profit for Ubuntu One
>Not if hardware makers will push their own Ubuntu console with own app stores.
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Faboy
wrote on the 6 Jun 12 at 02:22
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@puxkggn: I think you missunderstood my idea a bit. (and I described it too briefly on this page). The linked page answers many of your questions...
hardware manufacturers should not be able to change the whole system, but they could change settings, add packeges etc. (just like they do on Android)
The current consoles are Playstation, Xbox and Wii. My idea is that Canonical raises a _software_ platform for other hardware manufacturers like HP, Asus, Acer...
Those companies would all use the Ubuntu derivate.
to 1: The focus should be the optimization for games, the adaption of the GUI for gamepads, support for input devices (motion sensing, steering wheels,...)
to 2: I'm talking about the Ubuntu derivate for games. Canonical has to gather partners, who produce the game consoles (where could Ubuntu be installed otherwise?). That's why they have to advertise.
to 3: :D That's the idea. Every company IS able to to choose the hardware, because every company produces an own console. There have to be minimum hardware requirements that every game works, but the graphic can be more detailed on better hardware.
to 4: you are right. But if it will be done like on Android, it's OK, I think...
to 5: selling (of the consoles), updates for the Ubuntu derivate (there are updates for Xbox and Playstation as well) and advertising the console (TV ads,...)
What do you mean with "existing things"? I see no way for Canonical to produce things for PS, Xbox or Nintendo.
And again: It'll be not only 1 console, but many consoles.
If the console will change too much, it's still open source. So you can make emulators, compatibility layers etc.
If the hw producers were able to do so, Ubuntu TV and Android would be nonsense projects. The Google products are installed on every Android. I also don't really understand how that works, but it works ;)
I hope I could make it clearer...
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puxkggn
wrote on the 7 Jun 12 at 14:15
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There are a few different interpretations but each one of them has problems.
I wish something like this would exist but have given up on it being able to.
Keep in mind that you are going to target an audience that: just wants things that work, hates change, hates having to do updates and upgrades, cannot and will not diagnose problems until the device physically falls apart and other such things.
If companies start adding software they could also start adding different libraries. Some developers will use or not. This will cause dependency hell same as dll hell with windows.
Android has it easy because the hardware producers can't write software so they stick to GUI remodelling. Google is so widely known and is used a lot so the smartphone makers add the applications or leave them to advertise we have lots of apps for you and Google too! Console developing companies are a different breed. The inclusion of more supporting software / middle ware to advertise them to be easier to develop for is very real. It's easy and trivial to do. Because consoles are about running games, performance is critical. They might do some optimization of a library and advertise their performance.
You should look into LSB, stands for Linux Standards Base.
If you choose a minimum version there is a whole lot of ground already covered.
How are you going to make sure the devices have decent drivers?
Innovative development: playful GUI, compatibility with Smartphones, installed drivers for motion sensing devices, speech recognition programs. < If the software itself is standardized, I like the way things are going. We just need a practical scalable GUI. Mostly things under the hood.
Input devices: gamepad (primary), joystick/steering wheel..., keyboard + mouse. < This should be working all the time in the platform. If games make decent GUI's is another question.
Every device has to fulfill the minimum hardware requirements (even though Ubuntu itself would also run on worse gadgets). There are no upgrades (only updates) for each gadget. < You need a way to tell users their hardware is insufficient for running the game in a fully automatic manner.
Including graphic engines, APIs and other tools to simplify the game development < If we are talking about a standardized set of software, that should work. Don't forget documentation and samples to show use of the API's and default middle ware/supporting software. If you make it easy for developers to do the things the right way, they will follow. Especially if you make it easier than doing things the wrong way.
Optimization for games: “freeze” games automatically when they are minimized; lightweigtht < Here is a better alternative: automatic pausing when they are minimized.
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puxkggn
wrote on the 7 Jun 12 at 14:20
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Also what do you mean by compatibility with smartphones?
System requirements aside there is nothing stopping anyone from compiling Ubuntu for smartphones.
The biggest showstoppers seem to be:
hardware discovery: each chipset is different
desktops have acpi and Microsoft is asking smartphone companies to adopt it.
Only for non intel chipsets: ARM instruction set:
need to compile everything for that, not a problem if software is abstracted away from instruction set / written in a higher language.
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Faboy
wrote on the 8 Jun 12 at 21:39
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"Keep in mind that you are going to target an audience that:..." - And that are actually the people Ubuntu wants to obtain along the lines of Apple.
"If companies start adding software..." - This will only be the case if one company has a clear majority or if the biggest companies all use the same proprietary libraries. It can happen to every operating system: for example the Flashplayer, MP3, DirectX, Java,...
Ubuntu can quickly provide an alternative for the new library.
"How are you going to make sure the devices have decent drivers?" - That's the producers' job. Either they'll use compatible hardware or they have to create drivers.
compatibility with smartphones should mean that there are APIs for communicating with apps. Hence, games could be navigated with a smartphone (as an example).
All in all I mostly agree with you. Maybe its required to make some more restictions on adding closed software Ubuntu than the GPL, to get rid of some technical problems, documentate very detailed etc.
But there are so many (seemingly) unnecessary projects out there.
Why does nobody give it a try to code a Linux for gaming consoles? (in my eyes it would be more promising than starting thousands of desktop-distros)
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puxkggn
wrote on the 10 Jun 12 at 12:08
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After reading your reply you seem to have a good grasp on the subject at hand.
Unification is the magic word. apps are programs, there is not anything special about smartphone or tablet. They are both computers. One input api for all of them would be very nice.
Are you going to demand support for api's such as OpenGL or OpenGL ES?
Looking forward to the development of your project!
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I like this idea. I think, it could be done the following way:
1. Propose unified Ubuntu Game API, OpenGL ES + Sound API + Input API, etc. Something like DirectX/XNA, but free. We might just use SDL.
2. Organize a hardware certification program, maintain a list of the most compatible hardware to use in the console.
3. Write a gamepad-friendly UI frontend.
4. Build an online platform on top of Ubuntu One and Ubuntu Software Center (cloud storage for game saves, game store, in-game chat, etc.)
5. Write a game controller app for Android which would use Ubuntu's Input API to communicate with games (a-la FlyPad, Wii U or MS Smart Glass).
6. Provide a unified fat binary format, if x86_64 wouldn't be the only allowed architecture.
7. Build an actual reference console unit and produce it through the Kickstarter campaign.
Seems to be a huge, but doable, job.
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