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Estesark
wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 17:03
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Ctrl+Esc does the job in KDE, and it seems logical and simple enough to include in GNOME as well.
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Linux is not windows...
if we do it all exact it won't be different, so it won't be better!
I know it's not an issue that makes it better or not but it is a tendence, a tendence to avoid!
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henrik
(Brainstorm admin)
wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 18:06
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A related problem is LP bug 90434. Ctrl+Alt+Backspace kills X and can cause serious data loss for unsuspecting users.
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I suspect that a windows-adapted user would only try this once, and many linux user already feel the pain with configuring their shortcuts back to previous behavior.
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keen101
wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 20:08
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I think some sort of key combination would be handy when things go bad. Sometimes I can use force quit, sometimes I can't.
It would be nice if either Ctrl + Alt + Del, Ctrl + Esc either brought up either the Task manager or Force Quit. Sometimes you can't get to either of those buttons on your desktop.
Yes, Ctrl + Alt + Backspace does work in desperate situations. But, it should be reserved for absolute desperate situations.
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I’d like to see a handy shortcut aswell, but we shouldn’t mirror everything Windows does because then we’re just a clone.
Ctrl+Esc sounds good, ctrl+shift+esc was always awkward…
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dmuir
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 00:02
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There should be some kind of "compatability" setup.
I come from the 3D world. Programs like Modo and XSI have their own shorcuts, but they give the user the option of using shortcut presets from other apps they might be moving from. Eg. Maya or 3dsMax
Under:
System->Preferences->Keyboard Shortcuts
You'd have an option of selecting from a series of Keyboard shortcut presets. (Windows, Mac, Custom, etc)
It would be handy if the presets could be saved and shared as well.
This would be good for users coming from any other OS, not just for Windows users.
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In terms of UI features like shortcuts, personally I think it is always best to copy what else is out there, unless the new shortcut really is an improvement. Being different just because of a petty Linux vs Windows religious war is not an improvement, its just annoying for everyone who is trying to switch OS or who has to use multiple OSs.
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I think this should be an option when turning on ubuntu for the first time. I'm sure most ubuntu couldn't live with using ctrl+alt+del on their linux boxes, a key combo synonymous to windows' instability.
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fluxy
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 01:55
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Windows-alike or not, this is definitely very helpful if well designed. Also, maybe the windows key on keyboards should be tuned by default to show the gnome menu, that'd be helpful.
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fsamuels
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 03:32
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This has been an itch for me for a while. My best current solution is to just have the system monitor on my panel which allows for a single click to bring up the full thing. Although I think we shouldn't emulate Windows here, Ctrl + Alt + Del would be a great (and expected) key combination when you want the system monitor.
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It should be better to make apps stop crashing :)
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kenr
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 04:15
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Many newcomers to Linux know Ctrl+Alt+Del from Windows. That is the first thing they think of when the system becomes unresponsive. Like it or not, many people have acquired habits from years of using Windows, so why not make use of that training? (But I'm not saying a particular key-combo should be forced on anyone who prefers an alternative)
Here is a suggestion for one way it might work:
1. Press Ctrl+Alt+Del one time: the system (motherboard) speaker emits a short beep, and the Task Manager pops up. This conforms to the expectation that pressing Ctrl+Alt+Del one time is harmless.
2. In the situation that the Task Manager does not pop up, because the GUI is unresponsive, it would be natural to try Ctrl+Alt+Del a second time. So if nothing happens, press Ctrl+Alt+Del a second time. The speaker emits two short beeps, and the X server is restarted. Perhaps it would be good to display a dialog first with the message "Are you sure you want to restart the X server?" Of course, if the GUI is unresponsive, the message will not be seen, and restart should be automatic.
3. If still nothing happens, press Ctrl+Alt+Del for the third time. The speaker emits three short beeps, and the system reboots.
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korin43
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 04:36
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THis is seriously one of the biggest things for me in Linux. When your system is locking up, you can't go through the start menu to find the task manager, you want to just hit a couple keys and have it pop up. Adding to this, the program that comes up should be at the highest possible priority so you have the chance to shut the offending program down.
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dascheer
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 04:49
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holla! if not a keyboard shortcut, then can system monitor at least show up in the "run commands" dialog. so down for this change.
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hackel
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 05:02
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Ctrl-Alt-Del is a universally accepted keyboard shortcut to reboot the computer, and that's what it does on Linux/Ubuntu. Only Windows NT+ decided to change this. I do NOT think we should adopt Microsoft's decision to change this.
I also do not think it's useful to launch the gnome task manager, since it is an extremely resource-hungry application (compared to NT's task manager), and generally would only make the situation worse. We need something that operates on a real-time basis.
People should be made aware of the SysRq functions. These are extremely useful for solving such issues. (Try Alt-SysRq-H from a VT to see available options.) It would be nice if these could be used from within X, but I'm not sure how this could be accomplished.
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I love ctrl-alt-del. Whenever you press those keys it locks the computer. Works great if someone tries to mess with my machine. Well, now you cant mess with it anymore.
Default mapping to bring up a task manager isn't a horrible idea. I mean what if linux chose to make ctrl+c, ctrl+x, and ctrl+v completely different. Why mess with default mappings that most people are used to just for the hell of it. Now that is stupid.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control-Alt-Delete
I suggest those that were bitching about having Ctrl Alt Delete to learn something about computer history, Ctrl+ALt+Del was invented by IBM and then made famous by Bill gates and microsoft's bad OS commonly known ad Windows.
I do agree with hackel about gnome-system-monitor eating ram/cpu and even when not trying to recover from a crash/hang..... ie: firefox or java....
Please don't reinvent the wheel if its not broken don't fix....
See..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Invented_Here
Thanks
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Okay, I might be missing something, or perhaps I installed some plug-in I forgot about, but on my Ubuntu systems running Gutsy- pressing CTRL+ALT+DEL brings up the shut-down/log-out/lock screen, which as I recall is almost exactly what it does in Windows. It would be nice if they added a System Monitor (Task Manager) button to this, but otherwise- it is very-very similar to Windows.
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JKing
wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 17:06
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I think there are some very practical considerations to keep in mind in this case:
First, whether anyone likes it or not there is a significant base of existing users who are familiar with the Ctrl-Alt-Del shortcut (CAD). For decades CAD has suggested "Rescue me!" to users of DOS and Windows when the system encounters serious trouble with an application. People---lots of people---know CAD; it has even inspired scads of humour and levity in popular culture. That key combination in particular is something familiar to many, and I think there is probably an expectation amongst most who are ignorant of other systems that any computer should have CAD function in a similar fashion to Windows.
Second, I think it's important to note that some form of keyboard-accessible rescue function is desirable. All things being equal it's irrelevant whether the shortcut in question is Ctrl-Alt-Del or something else entirely, or whether said shortcut brings up the system monitor or just kills the current process or whatnot. So long as there is some way to recover from serious application failures without having to have access to the graphical interface.
All things, however, are not equal. Ctrl-Alt-Del is an established convention on Windows and DOS before it, and besides emotional reasons presented above ("We should avoid doing what Windows does!"), I see no sufficiently compelling reason not to be interoperable and consistent with a popular, established system with which many users---users who will probably encounter trouble and require quick help---are long familiar.
Whether CAD on Ubuntu brings up the Gnome system monitor or not is largely immaterial, so long as it brings up -something- that will help users who need help. Certainly the system monitor will do in a pinch. If the Ubuntu interface designers can come up with something better, fantastic; if not, at least we have something.
In the end no one loses anything by Ctrl-Alt-Del actually doing something rather than being useless, and lots of people will gain something very important: a lifeline in times of trouble. The way I see it, it's the human thing to do.
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Even *the* inventor of Control-alt-del has said as hindsight that it was a poor decision and they should have picked anything but not that. It has too poor usability in the end and software should be able handle most problem situations automatically anyways.
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It really frustrates me that people are so narrow minded about things like this.
Adding ctrl+alt+delete functionality to gnome will in no way whatsoever be a problem to any regular user of gnome as we never press ctrl+alt+delete. However, it will be of massive benefit to a new user who comes from using windows on a regular basis.
Ubuntu is an operating system for everyone, not just hardcore Linux users, and is a *real* chance to make a change, something which we should embrace. Not including the ctrl+alt+delte keystroke simply makes it harder for new users, which is in my opinion very silly indeed especially considering there are no real downsides to including it.
This also has nothing to do with the inventor of the keystroke. I think he regretted inventing it because of windows 95/98 etc making it reboot the computer, not brining up the task manager.
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Yes, and also give it an higher/elevated CPU/process priority, so that it is responsive, and you can use it to kill unresponsive stuff.
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cmr
wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 05:37
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linux is not windows
mimicking many things from windows misleads the user into expecting an unreasonable amount of familiarity.
we should select a reasonable default hotkey for this function, but we should decide what it will be by considering factors other than "how windows does it".
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ethana2
wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 06:50
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Let it be said that whenever we're different, we're better.-- not just different.
Ubuntu is Linux for Human Beings; it is an indisputable fact that the majority of said beings who are considering Ubuntu have used windows.
kenr _NAILED_ what we need to do; do what he says-- I'd just like to add that the super key needs to bring down the Applications menu. Too windows like? SO. WHAT. Tell me, what key /does/ bring down the Applications menu? What key combo /does/ open the system monitor? Why does /that/ need to be different? Should we change alt+tab to something else.. just to not be windows like? Absolutely not!
-that is all.
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Rudy85
wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 07:29
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Hi , i don't know if it was written ,
It's a good Idea to have emergently touchs for have an panel of applications running
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I agree that Control-Alt-Delete should bring up the System Monitor. I've changed it to that on my computer.
Lets face it, Ubuntu is a beginners distribution. And little things like this will greatly make Ubuntu easier.
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Sounds like something that would be easy to implement, and would help a lot of people coming from the Windows world. I'm for it.
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I'm all for it. I've been using Linux (Mandrake then Ubuntu) for years and when some apps start to lock down I have to open a terminal to kill them (IF I know how to, and IF I am able to open a terminal...), or I have to Ctrl+Alt+Backspace and lose everything.
The Ctrl+Alt+Delete shortcut is NOT USED in Ubuntu and I doubt a significant number of users have set it up for some of the apps they use. AND Ubuntu already has Gnome System Monitor. Just associate Ctrl+Alt+Delete with Gnome System Monitor in Ubuntu and you've improved usability.
OR provide another default keyboard shortcut. But since there is none right now and many users will expect Ctrl+Alt+Del, why not just use it?
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see also #3139 : Control-Alt-Delete key combination for start up system monitor
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No, it should be Alt+Meta+Escape. Those shortcuts are already ingrained in me from using my Mac!
Puhleze. We should make Ctrl+Alt+Del restart the system, like it does in Runlevel 1 ;)
Seriously though, I think this belays a deeper problem – Gnome doesn't have a nice, unified way to change keyboard shortcuts across all applications. Like Mac OS X.
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Ctrl-Alt-Del has been with computing since the dawn of (personal computing) time and lots of people know about it.
Hook it up to something useful like the System Monitor by default, but also make the sysmon less heavy/slow to start.
Sometimes being like Windows (and most BIOS) is a _good_ thing.
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snadrus
wrote on the 8 Mar 08 at 06:04
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There's different for the sake of being different.
There's different for the same of being better.
Since system-level shortcuts can't be "better" (unless there's some conflict/risk they avoid). Then there is no point in being different at all.
Lets copy every shortcut we can to make it the friendliest system for human beings (who arrive here with previous knowledge in almost every case).
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Additionally it would be great, if Ctrl+Alt+Delete would be accessible all the time with highest possible priority. In my experience, if the Ubuntu hangs, it hangs completely. Not even simple shortcuts, the system-monitor itself or a terminal are accessible any more. This is really annoying.
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Yuksare
wrote on the 14 Mar 08 at 17:25
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Agreed with Frank. If you migrate from windows first thing you try to do if your ubuntu system hangs - press ctrl+alt+del...and as I can see a lot of peole changing OS from win to linux.
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thoja
wrote on the 17 Mar 08 at 12:03
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It would be handy if System Monitor was set to 'Always On Top' by default.
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buggyman
wrote on the 21 Mar 08 at 05:34
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Quote:
Under:
System->Preferences->Keyboard Shortcuts
You'd have an option of selecting from a series of Keyboard shortcut presets. (Windows, Mac, Custom, etc)
It would be handy if the presets could be saved and shared as well.
>>good idea
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This is not as easy as it sounds. 1, because everyone has an opinion as to what it should be. (obvious from the comments here). 2, because with Compiz now being a big deal, it doesn't respect the way Metacity uses key combinations.
Compiz's modifier keys can't be used together. so Ctrl+Alt+Del doesn't work.
Ubuntu Studio went through several long chats in many places about this and in the end we will use Ctrl+F1 to launch gnome-system-monitor. We set this for Metacity and Compiz.
Works fine and is a easy combo that works across all types of keyboards.
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Whether or not there is a more efficient key combination, the fact is that Ubuntu *must* include Ctrl-Alt-Del. When a beginner hits their first freeze, how are they supposed to google the new key combination? Without CAD, we are guaranteeing that the first freeze will only be fixed by a restart- which will do much to discourage users from Linux.
This (with program installation, and flash support) is one of the main issues that keeps me from advising my friends to make the switch. It shouldn't be too hard to implement compared to other features, and I am frankly appalled that Ubuntu has gotten this far with usability while totally ignoring CAD. We all know Ubuntu needs work in terms of reducing the number of fixes that demand the terminal (or are needed at all), but this one is just a no-brainer.
Ctrl-Alt-Del just makes sense as a hotkey because it works ergonomically: (1) its the sort of thing you only press when you mean to because it uses two hands and (2) the keys themselves make sense- Ctrl-Alt implies a system function of some kind, while Del has an air of finality in killing processes. So I don't know why people act like CAD was originally a poorly-chosen shortcut. Really, I can't think of a better one for such a task.
But as far as implementation- kenr has it right on. That's how we can improve over Windows. Basically, CAD becomes the shortcut you cycle through when you have any kind of lockup. With this improvement, beginners will find it even easier than Windows- because they will be able to restart the X-server instead of restarting (with no prior knowledge). But to make this usable, the System Monitor needs to be more efficient. When CPU usage is high, it should cut back on its activities. And of course, it should get a higher priority. As for alternative shortcuts (in addition, not instead of CAD), we can add more- and I especially suggest we add those in use in other operating systems. Still, they should work the same way to reduce confusion.
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Yep, you have reason.
We can use Ctrl+Super(Windows button)+Supr. Its more or less the same.
And we need to put in "combinación de teclas" (mmm types combination?), Task Manager (monitor de sistema).
The option now is:
1-. Open the terminal (console) and type 2 things:
gconftool-2 -t str --set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/
run_command_9 "Delete”
gconftool-2 -t str --set /apps/metacity/keybinding_commands/
command_9 "gnome-system-monitor
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Sorry, was:
In terminal:
gconftool-2 -t str --set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/run_command_9 "Delete"
gconftool-2 -t str --set /apps/metacity/keybinding_commands/command_9 "gnome-system-monitor"
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For one reason, there are symbols ( >,
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arand
wrote on the 30 Aug 08 at 20:34
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Just one question: Is there anybody who actually uses the Control-Alt-Delete combination when they shut down Ubuntu (from graphical)? I am presuming they are easily counted. (Do shout out if I'm wrong.)
If so, there should be nothing stopping a redesign of the C-A-D function.
I personally am very enthusiastic about using it as some kind of "general panic key" (as mentioned above), which in a simplistic manner brings up a few options:
- Show running processes (a.k.a. system monitor/task manager)
- Kill a specific process/window (graphically)
- Kill all non-default processes (Killing all that isn't set to start at logon)
- Restart graphical environment (a.k.a. C-A-BackSpace)
- Start virtual terminal
- Drop to terminal
- Restart computer
(These just some suggestions which seemed like a good idea)
Ideally, C-A-D would grey out everything and pop up a severe-looking window with these options (chosen via keys or mouse).
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scrondo
wrote on the 7 Sep 08 at 23:27
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I quite agree with
kenr (29 Feb 08 at 04:15)
and
Ian Burnet (29 Apr 08 at 21:47)
CAD should become THE way to manage any kind of lockup.
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pyrates
wrote on the 12 Oct 08 at 05:10
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Yes I completely agree with this idea. It should be mapped to those by default. But doesn't OS X also have a different combination to get its version of the task manager up? If so, I think we should include that too.
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Auzy
wrote on the 12 Oct 08 at 05:29
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I think OSX uses "Apple key"+alt+backspace
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It is a great idea. There are people coming to Ubuntu from Windows, something goes wrong, they press CTRL-ALT-DEL and it does not respond in the way they expect, and they think that Ubuntu is broken.
By default, pressing CTRL-ALT-DEL should do something like bringing up System Monitor, but with the option to alter that to anything the user so desires, so that when setting up Ubuntu for yourself, or a person who is new to Ubuntu and used to Windows, you can choose a suitable action for pressing those keys.
Or it could be set to bring up a list of keyboard shortcuts, such as CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE, CTRL-ALT-F1, etc., so that users who are new know what to do. I have been using Ubuntu for over a year and am still learning the hidden parts like various keyboard shortcuts that do certain things that are not obvious when using Ubuntu, until you press the keys.
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pyrates
wrote on the 5 Jan 09 at 06:44
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Why would you want to alter it? If you want it altered, do it in the engineering phase when it is being programmed. Don't let the end user decide, the only people who would want that are programmers and that is not who Ubuntu is aiming at here.
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