|
Rationale
It's a real shame that PulseAudio is now installed by default in Hardy..not because there's anything wrong with PulseAudio, but because important applications will no longer work:
In Gutsy, you install it, download skype and flash.. they both just work. In Hardy this is certainly not the case, (no sound/unstable) and the problem can't be resolved properly unless you simply remove PulseAudio.
Now, the *real* problem is that any newcomers to Ubuntu will probably want to use both flash and skype only to find they don't work. Most people will be screaming 'yeah, but it's Skype/Flash's fault'. That's all very well, but the bottom line is that things that did work, are no longer working and Ubuntu has therefore become harder for a new user to use effectively.
I'm all for PulseAudio, it sounds cool, but like so many others, I'm simply having to remove it as it hinders my computer usage.
My suggestion is this:
Leave PulseAudio in the repos as-is, but make it so that it's not installed by default.
People won't stop using Skype, and they won't stop using Flash.
p.s - I don't like to moan, but it just seems like such a shame to me (and worth commenting about.)
-Update 23/04/2008-
Seems like this idea isn't appreciated at all! I'd remove it, but I can't seem to find a remove idea link. Perhaps that should be my next idea :D
Tags:
(none)
|
|
Propose your solution
Attachments
No attachments.
Duplicates
Comments
|
chig00
wrote on the 22 Apr 08 at 01:21
|
|
|
|
Didn't try PulseAudio myself, but heard many complains about it, so probably it is good idea to wait. But it is definitely to late now to change such important program to something else.
|
|
|
Well, I guess it is too late to remove it, now that 8.04 is shipping in two days.
And 6 months after that, by the time 8.10 Interpid Ipix ships in October, issues will be resolved and PulseAudio will be better.
|
|
Auzy
wrote on the 22 Apr 08 at 02:34
|
|
|
And if we don't install it, skype will never get fixed, and either will flash.
Microsoft breaks applications occasionally too. Apple breaks them all the time.
And KDE4 took a massive risk to change almost all their components at once. Its better to get the change out of the way now
|
|
|
|
I hope this doesn't impair my computer usability. Skype is a must program for me since WengoPhone and others provided with Ubuntu never worked.
|
|
|
Francisco, I've posted a little guide on the subject on my blog, it's simply a matter of remove pulseaudio using apt/synaptic (not difficult):
http://john-hunt.com/linux/2008/04/22/skype-and-flash-no-longer-working-in-hard y-heron/
Auzy had a good point about having to put these features in to encourage Skype etc to be fixed. However, the linux track record of companies such as Adobe & Skype is not good. There won't be a fix before 8.10 (well, perhaps...)
|
|
Auzy
wrote on the 22 Apr 08 at 03:00
|
|
|
Wait, I have an update, there is a way to get these apps working (someone just needs to add a patch to the package maybe)
http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/PerfectSetup
So its not an issue, the maintainers just need to add these patches. Definately -1..
|
|
Auzy
wrote on the 22 Apr 08 at 03:05
|
|
|
|
Actually, at this point of time, because there are workarounds, i'd go as far as to say this idea should be deleted, and resubmitted as "fix skype and flash packages for pulseaudio"
|
|
|
|
I have Ubuntu hardy amd64 with youtube and skype working with sound? Am I missing something?
|
|
wit3k
wrote on the 22 Apr 08 at 12:00
|
|
|
...and if it wouldn working - we cant stop us from enchanchements just because some properitary software grows so slow that they still dont know, or are too stupid to change few lines of code to fit it into new API.
Its new functionality for those programmist with very little effort. Its like porting Qt3 based application to Qt4 - new headers, some new lines of code (or must of deleting few deprecated functions) - and faster, better and safer application "for free".
|
|
|
|
For me, it completely disabled DVD playback, causing it to be unbearbly jerky. I have a mini-ITX machine (ME-6000), with a mere 600 MHz CPU, which worked fine under Mandriva 2006. However, pulseaudio uses about 30% CPU, which simply isn't spare!
|
|
ubby
wrote on the 31 May 08 at 14:18
|
|
|
I am a average Ubuntu user and also the sound doesn't work for me.
I also think the problem is Pulse Audio.
I have tried some workarounds but I still have no sound.
I think this is not good for a LTS version.
The only option is to solve it and otherwise remove it.
|
|
ljrossi
wrote on the 3 Jun 08 at 13:53
|
|
|
I agree Pulse audio mess up things .Have same troubles.
Allthougt now is late, it should be fix or remove inmieadtly,
No way should Skype or other software , had to been rewriten to adapt to pulse audio.
Its suposed that should be clean and that linux should run a program writen 1 month ago or 10 years ago.
I ususally recomend UBUNTU to friends, not any more now.
|
|
Auzy
wrote on the 3 Jun 08 at 14:09
|
|
|
I have posted exactly why we use pulseaudio in http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/1118/ .
And why its something you guys may want to retract your whinging ;)
In summary, it allows coders to make the same sound code work on windows, OSX, linux, Solaris, without any extra effort (unlike OSS and ALSA which only work on Nix).
So that means skype and Flash may release linux versions a lot quicker, because there is less linux specific code needed.
In 2 years time, nobody should be using ALSA or OSS directly anymore, they should be using Phenon or Pulseaudio. Yes it has broken 2 or 3 applications (flash and skype are the main ones). However, these are broken because they probably were coded in a hackish way. Once they are migrated to pulseaudio, you may find that updates are released quicker, because the same sound code can be used on almost ANY OS (instead of having special linux exceptions).
And the reason why it had to be added to LTS, was because in 2 years time, many newer apps will likely rely on pulseaudio. These current issues can be cleaned up quickly, and can be hacked around if you wish.
OSX and Microsoft broke a few apps too. They do it all the time. And its generally because they were coded in a poor manner. For all that we know, skype and flash were using undocumented API's to do some of their business. The programs that were broken were very limited, and tended to be closed source.
You will likely never directly realise the true gain of this change. But just remember, that cross platform developers who fully embrace the pulseaudio and phenon frameworks, will be producing code which is simpler, more cross platform (this is a side effect, they don't even need to try, pulseaudio's nature is that it is cross platform), less buggy, and can be updated quicker, because the code is simpler, and exceptions don't need to be made for any OS to support audio properly.
|
|
Auzy
wrote on the 3 Jun 08 at 14:11
|
|
|
|
Actually, i will clarify to say, why I believe Canonical is using Pulseaudio. I'm not affiliated with Ubuntu in any way.
|
|
|
Seriously - I'm at my wits end with pulseaudio. It causes me nothing but trouble with my FastTrack USB, and lots and lots of lag when trying to record.
I understand it's benefits, but they do not apply to the majority. That said if I knew how to (lame excuse I know) I'd tear ALSA, Pulse and Jack apart and build 1 server for 1 task!
|
|
Auzy
wrote on the 9 Sep 08 at 23:36
|
|
|
ALSA is linux specific only. Jack is a part of alsa.
If you want to increase applications available, we must push pulse, because then applications coded with pulse will work on linux, Windows and OSX.
|
|
|
I am sorry, but I'm voting this up. Pulse breaks sound too much and offers me very little actual benefit. I don't need/want Pulse.
I am actually surprised they put something that isn't even BETA up for sound in Ubuntu.
ALSA was fine. sure it was Linxu specific, but all my audio worked perfectly with ALSA.
Now I have to engage it in hand to hand combat to get what I had before this disastrous mistake of a sound server was installed.
And don't give me this "make the apps work with PA" crap, that's not good business. A server is to work with what exists, not vice versa.
|
|
Endolith
wrote on the 28 May 09 at 02:46
|
|
|
|
PulseAudio has some cool applications, but it's really not usable or useful to the vast majority of users. Take it out until it's ready.
|
|
|
|
Remove PulseAudio once for all!!! It`s the black sheep of the Linux...
|
Post your comment
|
