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ethana2
wrote on the 20 Mar 08 at 07:34
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If you do vote this down, naturally I'm most interested in your reasoning. If there's something I've overlooked, I'd like to know. Thanks.
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I vote up, I have tought of this myself in the past. The combo issue remains, however, but perhaps could be solved by displaying the menu on key release instead of key press (i don't know if it is possible as with the mouse). This way the combos are safe because other keys are pressed while super is down.
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takdavid
wrote on the 20 Mar 08 at 08:40
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Have you tried out System/Preferences/Keyboard shortcuts?
Or you mean this should be the _default_ behavior?
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Alan Pope
(Ubuntu developer)
wrote on the 20 Mar 08 at 09:27
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My keyboard has no windows key. If it was the default behaviour then I'd be stuck.
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@takdavid, it is always possible to remap a key trough System/Preferences/Keyboard shortcuts, but having it by default would be just a nice touch.
@Alan Pope, the majority of keyboards do have a "super" key, wether it is windows or apple... or ubuntu logo as some sticker program allows, in the case of a keyboard without it nothing would change, you can always remap it back to Alt+F1 trough System/Preferences/Keyboard shortcuts ;)
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lynx
wrote on the 20 Mar 08 at 10:08
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it's not so hard to detect if a keyboard has 101/102-keys or 104/105-keys, but the best would be that ubuntu should sign a license agreement with keyboard manufacturers and put a new logo (ubuntu or tux) instead of windows logo.
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arch0njw
wrote on the 20 Mar 08 at 11:12
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The "super key" is a modifier key like Shift, Control, and Alt. I disagree with having it drop down the menu or being able to be mapped to drop down the menu. I use the "super key" to be used in combination with other keys for favorite things like "run", "konqueror", "dolphin", and switching desktops (super+up, super+down, super+right, super+left, super+F#, etc.).
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djh2400
wrote on the 20 Mar 08 at 13:14
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arch0njw, did you even read what ethana2 wrote? The Apps menu wouldn't drop down from pressing the super key until the key was /let up/ without another key being used in combination with this. In no way does this degrade it from being a modifier key, and it helps to not confuse new users.
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Using the super-key as a modifier (like Shift and Alt) generally has to be manually set up through they Keyboard Shortcuts utility (for example). Setting the menu dropdown as a default behavior really wouldn't hurt anyone, since those that want to use it for something else will be tinkering around there anyway.
This can be really easily set up, even by a novice, but it would be nice to see as as a default- only because it is what a lot of people weaning themselves off Windows will be used to.
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Actually i prefer the idea where all window related functions are mapped to that key.
So:
Super + up/down would switch between apps
Super + left/right would switch workspaces
Super + pageup/pagedown would minimize/restore/maximize
Super + delete would close the app
Super + home/end would bring the desktop up front or restore all windows
Super + plus/minus would zoom in on current app or zoom out to view all desktops at once
Super + ? would bring up help
Super + n would negatate the colors of the screen
Super + insert would bring up the run-me dialog
Super + space would bring up gnome-do or deskbar
Super + escape would bring up the log-out/quit dialog
And holding super for 2 seconds without any modifier would bring up an overlay where all these keyboard shortcuts would be shown.
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blairnic
wrote on the 20 Mar 08 at 17:09
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the simple fact is that most keyboards you buy today include the Windows start key. Ubuntu should leverage it by default when it is there as it will help users migrating from Windows to Ubuntu and because they are used to the feature.
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wladston
wrote on the 20 Mar 08 at 18:54
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+1
@ Alan : I'm sure that the majority of keyboards out there got a super key. Default procedures should support the majories, not the minorities ... You could always map it back to alt+f1
@idea's author : I think that what would make SUPER really productive would be to map it to the tracker tool (like it's being done on windows vista). It's the feature that I most admire on windows - to find a program or file, just press the super key, type in the name, choose with up/down keys, and press enter. What do you think about it ?
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nullmind
(Idea reviewer)
wrote on the 20 Mar 08 at 19:29
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Alt+F1 does this very well already, and compiz plugins make extensive use of the super key. It's a modifier key, just check the gconf or compiz syntax for declaring hotkeys that use it.
Despite the "arguments" made by the author (and the sensationalism), this is an attempt to make Ubuntu work like Windows users expect. The setting is configurable, but it may be difficult to bind it to a modifier (or may not work correctly), in which I would consider that a valid feature or bug request.
Cheers,
Kris
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nullmind
(Idea reviewer)
wrote on the 21 Mar 08 at 02:32
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I talked to a friend and he commented on this stating that his System76 notebook came stock with this feature like this and it caused many issues with compiz and he immediately changed it.
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ethana2
wrote on the 21 Mar 08 at 05:47
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If gconf would even /let/ me make super do what I wanted it to, I don't know if I'd be bothering you.
Obviously there are some issues to resolve. That can be done. It can be made very simple to turn off. If you have all your compiz hotkeys memorized, chances are you won't have that much trouble doing just that. Also, like I said, this can be made to work without conflicting with the use of super as a modifier.
(While we're at it, can somebody /please/ implement a proper CAPS->backspace option in the keyboard prefs? I'm tired of my colemak not working right.)
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ethana2
wrote on the 21 Mar 08 at 05:54
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Oh yeah, nullmind? I beg your pardon for my 'sensationalism'.
...I can be like that sometimes.
wladston, all applets in the panel should be selectable from the keyboard. (arrow keys)
..so I think we should do that, and I'd recommend putting the deskbar applet to the left of the main menu, so you only have to hit two keys.
..sorry for the long time to response, I didn't expect this to become my most popular idea within what, 24 hours?
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BungaMan
wrote on the 22 Mar 08 at 14:03
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-1
- It IS very windows-like and Mac-like. Have you looked at the image on the keyboard? I don't see a tux here.
- You are in a GUI, click on it. What are you going to do after the super key? Further navigate with your keyboard?
- If it is needed in case of mouse issues then alt-f1 works just fine as a non-frequently used shortcut.
- As been said above, Compiz doesn't like it.
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lynx
wrote on the 23 Mar 08 at 10:53
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all that we want is to make ubuntu more productive, so if it is super key, windows key, meta key, tux key, ubuntu key ... any key ... it doesn't matter, i just want to push one (1) key not two (2) to bring up my applications menu, and this 'feature' should be by default.
99% of the time when you open ubuntu you just pop-up the applications menu, by mouse or by keyboard accelerators/shortcuts.
is this so complicated?
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ethana2
wrote on the 23 Mar 08 at 22:55
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BungaMan: http://www.zareason.com/shop/image.php?id=93&type=D
..I do.
So compiz has a bug, file it.
...and in case you didn't notice, windows+mac=99.4% desktop market share. That means it's expected behavior.
The best productive environment a person can have is a GUI navigable by keyboard. Just ask a blender user.
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+1
It should behave like in Windows by default.
Super+E should allow exploring the filesystem
Super+R should allow running applications
Super+M should allow minimizing all
Super+L should allow switching users
and Super alone should open menu.
There's nothing wrong that it comes from Windows. They started it, it was their initiative to add the additional keys to keyboards, and thus they created a de-facto standard.
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This and much more could be done if there was a good universal "hotkey" manager
And I totally agree with this idea. That's the one thing that's missing.
But the "hotkey" manager would give you a choice how to map your hotkeys. So people like Alan Pope could make their key combination.
Is this a dupe of my idea??
+1
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ilektron
wrote on the 16 Jul 08 at 08:15
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Please don't take away my super key!
I have long gotten used to alt-F1, and all the other alt-FKEY shortcuts that do all the useful things you would need.
Holding down the super key (My IBM-M doesn't have one and it drives me nuts) to move windows is one of my most used shortcuts. I almost never pull down the menu and in fact get rid of it on most of my systems. alt-F2 works wonders for running anything you would find in the menu and more.
There are some other good points as well, that a well trained compiz user uses the super key to initiate a slew of other shortcuts.
Please keep the super key as a modifier!
-1
(PS Nobody but nerds uses or even knows of the secret 'windows' key shortcuts to open explorer or to lock the screen, so the 'better for novices' arguments are BUNK!)
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I have to say I don't like this idea at all.
In fact in Windows, one of the first things I do is disable that functionality and that is a pain in itself. Just because Windows has it and your in a habit doesn't mean it's the best way. Try learning new ways with an open mind.
I can't think of many situations where I would be hitting a menu shortcut key often and worrying about hitting 2 buttons at the same time. 99% of the time I use the mouse and the rest of the time I then have to navigate around with the keyboard more anyway so it makes no difference to me.
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trlkly
wrote on the 3 Apr 09 at 23:20
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It seems to me that, just like every other improvement on this site, that the opposition only states one of two arguments?
1. I don't like it, and won't use it.
So what? The question is whether it would be good for NEW users., as it would be with any other DEFAULT mapping request. If you've been using Ubuntu long enough to comment here, then you should know how to change it. Newbies don't have that luxury.
2. It's too MAC/Windows-like
Again, so what? Why should your personal vendetta against Microsoft or Apple have any bearing on what we do in Ubuntu?
And anyways, I don't see you not using GNOME because of it's inclusion of the evil M$ mono...
(Note. Yes, I know there was a third argument raised, But it was dealt with. Super needs to remain a modifier. That's why this feature should only activate on key_up, so as not to screw up the modifiers)
Finally, kudos to DXD for that last sentence.
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The proper behaviour here is obvious.
If they press the Super key and release it, show the Gnome menu.
If they press the Super key and another key before releasing Super, then it pulls the keyboard shortcut.
There is no need to interfere with any keyboard shortcuts.
The Super key is just hardwired into many peoples brains as being the "Start Menu" button. The principle, unwritten goal of Ubuntu is to draw people over from Windowsland, is it not? Make it familiar to them.
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If it was at least possible to set the Super Key in Keyboard shortcuts... Vote +1.
Ubuntu Alt+F1, Mythbuntu Ctrl+ESC :-(
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sanbor
wrote on the 23 Sep 10 at 04:08
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It's an essential usability that have too many years in linux.
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Is there a major design reason why a key cannot be both a modifier and have an action on its own? This seems like it would be a useful feature to have.
I haven't found an application on ubuntu yet that uses Super-key shortcuts at all (by default), and most applications don't even filter out input when I hit keys with the super modifier. (Compare to: holding alt, ctrl, or shift and hitting non-shortcut keys).
It feels like the Super key should do something. Right now I can't even use it for shortcuts without customization. Whether it's a menu, a default application, or some other action, I feel like ubuntu should take better advantage of this extra key that many users have.
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What really gets me on this site is that all the old timey linux guys want to poo-poo a good idea because it's not old-timey. We should all be using cli OSes and why would you ever need a GUI?
And why would you ever want a system to be useful for a new user? And why would you ever want market share or to appeal to non tech geeks and... why would you want a superkey to open up and display cleanly on the screen for you your applications menu?
Besides, [ctrl]+[c] is too much like microsoft, who started that, as is [ctrl]+[v] and so forth, which is why I always remap my [ctrl]+[c] to halt programs.
I think that pressing + + for the menu is the best functionality right now. Because that's how I always map my keyboard and I've been doing it a long time and I don't wanna change to this newfangled stuff. I just can't possibly understand or comprehend why anyone would want accessibility and universality when they can have obscurity, alienation, and avoidance of appealing in any way to larger markets.
Oh yeah, and that's a thumbs up by the way.
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Apparently I can't use some kinds of brackets, or edit comments. That was supposed to be 'pressing [left ctrl] + [right shift] + [num pad 9] is the best functionality right now.'
Much funnier when I don't have to explain that a second time. Ah well....
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You can set super to trigger the applications menu in ubuntu tweak. It's the first thing I do if I'm helping someone get started with Linux. I consider it an essential part of the operation of the pc!
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