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Description
I know this is probably going to be unpopular as hell, but what business does Ubuntu devs have putting betas of Firefox in Ubutu ISOs like Firefox 3 is the default in Hardy? I know Firefox 3 is faster and probably better than Firefox 2, but there are two huge reasons for keeping it out of Hardy until it's released. First Firefox 3 is still in beta phase, and no matter how well things are looking for the Linux versions things are not finished yet. Some things could and probably will change before it's release (now looking at late May/early June, past the Hardy ship date). Should we be giving users software that so clearly isn't finished yet as the default browser? Especially when so much of the addons are not updated to work with Firefox 3 yet?
Second is the fact that people should always have to opt into using beta software as an intentional act on their part. I realize Hardy is still in alpha phase so people using it are opting in, but they're opting into the OS, not the web browser.
These are just two big reasons why Firefox 2 should stay the default browser for Hardy and why no beta software should ever be the default for Ubuntu. Make betas available in Synaptic, but let the users make the choice to use it or not use it. And yes, I'm typing this is Firefox 3.0b5pre, but I made the decision to use it, just like everyone else should have that choice when they install/upgrade Ubuntu.
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AndrewC wrote on the 13 Mar 08 at 03:25
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As far as I know, Firefox 3 will only be included if it is finished (or at least in Release Candidate stage) before Hardy's release. I doubt they would include beta software in an LTS release. They could very easily roll back to Firefox 2 packages if Firefox 3 isn't ready yet.
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neon wrote on the 13 Mar 08 at 04:37
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Um. Because we have to test FF3, because we're hoping it will be default in Hardy. We can't just add it when it becomes stable, otherwise it wouldn't be tested enough. You opted to test an ALPHA/BETA OS, most likely meaning it will have ALPHA/BETA software. Otherwise, it wouldn't need testing now would it? ;]
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DJ_Peng wrote on the 13 Mar 08 at 06:09
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I haven't started using Hardy (yet), but yes, I am using Fx3 as a beta. And from what I'm seeing Fx3b3 is the default web browser in the latest Hardy alpha. AndrewC, there's no way Firefox 3 will be ready for release when Hardy goes final, and that's been known for at least a couple of Firefox betas now. So as things stand now the beta version will be the default web browser for everyone using Hardy (unless they specifically change it).
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endeavor wrote on the 13 Mar 08 at 13:14
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I agree. It doesn't appear FF3 will be ready when 8.04 ships. Version 2 should be put back in as the default and tested to make sure there are no problems with it. When 3 is released it can be backported.
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wolfwitch wrote on the 13 Mar 08 at 14:42
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Yep- they put Beta FF in Beta (actually Alpha) Hardy. It's simple to roll back to FF2 if they have to, and it sounds like they probably will. I'm sure they were hoping FF3 would be ready at the same time.
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s3a wrote on the 25 Mar 08 at 00:24
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Firefox 2 Should be the default web browser since it's the latest that is not a beta...and what's the big deal with putting Firefox 3 betas in synaptic?? It's still super easy to get for those who want it while keeping those who are clueless about the difference in a safety/everything working zone!
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borris wrote on the 25 Mar 08 at 01:19
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I personally think that FF3 should *not* be included with Hardy. It's not called beta for no reason, guys! It's not supported well yet, it's got bugs, it's still open to changes. Beta should be totally up to the individual user.
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smartboyathome wrote on the 25 Mar 08 at 01:20
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The reason they put the beta in is because it should be released before Hardy .1 is due in may, and Firefox 2 won't be able to be supported for the whole life of Hardy. Firefox 3, on the other hand, will be able to be supported, and Dapper will still be supported until Hardy .1 is released, meaning that people could upgrade after the .1 release.
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vexorian wrote on the 25 Mar 08 at 03:35
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Even if firefox 3 stayed beta before hardy release date, I would prefer firefox 3 by far, it is crazy but the beta really tops firefox 2 in every way even stability...
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DJ_Peng wrote on the 25 Mar 08 at 18:38
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I prefer Fx3, too. I'm just saying it should be available as an option, not the default. Why? Because there are still issues to be dealt with, favored extensions and themes aren't compatible yet, but mostly because Mozilla puts a big warning on the announcement that it shouldn't be used by everyone. Why can't we require an opt-in for using it like Mozilla requests on the announcement of every testing version's availability?
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Kendall wrote on the 25 Mar 08 at 19:52
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I agree with keeping it out of the Hardy release. However, the argument to do so because Hardy should not include beta software is ridiculously void. There are huge amounts of software in the repos, as well as installed by default, so Firefox is not alone.
However, it's one of the things people use most, and as such should be a stable release. Though Firefox 2 never actually became stable for me. Use Opera1 :p
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k99goran wrote on the 28 Mar 08 at 08:16
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How long will Firefox 2 be actively supported (patched) by Mozilla, anyway?
I never thought Long Term Support meant that the operating system had to be rock solid at the very day it was released. Running a beta browser (which seems to work fine for most people) for 2 months out of 3/5 years seems like a non-issue for me.
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DJ_Peng wrote on the 1 Apr 08 at 08:07
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It may be a non-issue for you, k99, but maybe not for others. That's why beta testing something like a web browser really should be opt-in, not opt-out.
After testing Fx3 for several months I've decided I prefer Fx2 and rolled back to it. Luckily I know that Fx3 needs it's own profile so I still have my Fx2 profile available. If one of the users after hardy leaves beta tries Fx3 and decides they'd rather use Fx2 they're screwed, because the profile will be 100% useless for fx2 once Fx3 uses it. Maybe a non-issue for you and a lot of others, but you're free to opt-in under most circumstances. Anyone who prefers Fx2 will have to opt-out and recreate their entire profile.
To answer the EOL question, according to Wikipedia, Mozilla generally supports a browser six months after a major upgrade, but due to the major changes in Fx3 I suspect this may be a case of letting Fx3 be opt-in despite the projected EOL for Fx2 of the end of 2008. I know I'll be looking to use Fx2 well into 2009 pending resolution of some issues and I may not be the only one.
Besides, I thought one of the benefits of Open Source was FREEDOM OF CHOICE. Anyone who gets Hardy and it's testing version of Fx3 is being robbed of the ability to make that choice (see profile issues).
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klerud wrote on the 7 Apr 08 at 18:06
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I really hope the FireFox Beta will be removed from the final release of Hardy. It will be Beta/RC until June and until then I don't see what it is doing here. Pushing unfinished software on end users is just plain stupid. Those who want it can get it themselves! Don't put FF3B in just because it's "the new internet experience". It is NOT done yet!
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DJ_Peng wrote on the 9 Apr 08 at 15:07
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I agree with you, kelrud, but it's obvious now that it simply isn't going to happen. Fx2 won't be supported long enough for the LTS release fo Hardy and The Powers That Be don't give a frack about the "Beta" moniker. Too many other programs are in Ubuntu in beta state that people simply can't see that a web browser should be treated differently.
I've actually switched back to Fx2 because Fx3 just got to ticking me off too much with all the late changes. I'm actually looking at Epiphany, even if it means getting used to an entirely new browser. Decisions made by the Firefox 3 devs have bugged the hell out of me for just too long.
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RussellGee wrote on the 17 Apr 08 at 16:02
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Hardy isn't going to ship with a firefox beta, its shipping with the RC.It would be stupid not to ship it, hardy is a LTS release and firefox 2 will soon be reaching its end of life.When firefox 3 is finished it will be available through updates and will be shipped with 8.04.1
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Nezing wrote on the 19 Apr 08 at 17:31
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Been using "fox-Beta" for a few days,and had to change boolean values to install an important add-on (well,important to me,anyway),so that was annoying.But I do like the browser.However,like a lot of folks,I shall stick with version 2,until the final piece of the jigsaw has been fixed.Should it be released in this state under Hardy.NO.
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DJ_Peng wrote on the 20 Apr 08 at 17:28
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Oh, really, Russell? I just checked the Mozilla dev blog and the latest news is that Firefox 3's tree is in a lockdown for RC1. Meaning the RC hasn't even been released yet.
And I'll bet you dollars to donuts when RC1 does ship it's going to have that same bold notice that it's for testing purposes only and not for general use yet. Which is the very sticking point for my saying a release of Ubuntu shouldn't ship with a non-final version of Firefox. But this is one of those agree to disagree points. It's too bad since 8.04.1 is already planned that they can't ship Hardy with Fx2 and put the final Fx3 in 8.04.1. That way we honor the developer's intentions when it comes to who uses the browser.
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 RainCT (Ubuntu Developer) wrote on the 26 Aug 08 at 22:14
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Marking as "Won't implement" as this idea is obsolete (Hardy has been released long ago).
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