Idea
#3398: Try to develop a distributon-independent packaging format
|
| |
71
|
|
|
Written by _thomas_ the 5 Mar 08 at 19:50.
Category: System.
Related to:
Nothing/Others.
Status: New
|
|
|
Description
I think it would be very good for Linux in general if there would exist a packaging format which nearly all distributions would support.
I do not mean every distribution should use deb or rpm, I mean a new packaging format which should be like a layer above rpm and deb and which should be able to integrate in many of the existing packaging systems. So for the user it should not be different to install like a deb file.
With this there would be an unified Linux package but the distributions can provide there own packages in their own packaging format too.
So then it would be much easier to develop programs for Linux.
I know Ubuntu cannot make this alone but Ubuntu can start and try to get all the distributions together for this.
I think the packaging problem is one of the greatest issues of Linux and should be fixed as soon as possible.
Tags:
(none)
Attachments
No attachments.
Duplicates
Comments
|
_thomas_ wrote on the 5 Mar 08 at 21:56
|
Thanks for the link. I did not know PackageKit.
So you can make packages for PackageKit which you can install on any distribution PackageKit supports? Or is it just an interface for the different package managers?
|
|
AndrewC wrote on the 5 Mar 08 at 22:28
|
My understanding is that PackageKit is both a set of APIs which let you build package management software that will work on any distribution as a frontend to that distribution's native package manager, as well as a graphical frontend for itself which means you can use the same package manager on any system. But it doesn't let you install a package on any distribution.
It's really a noble idea, but it's not realistic. It's also been proposed plenty of times here before.
|
|
vexorian wrote on the 6 Mar 08 at 04:29
|
Packaging is what defines a distro.
If all distros moved to the same packaging format (Which would be VERY hard to do) they all will mostly become the same distro.
|
|
_thomas_ wrote on the 6 Mar 08 at 10:05
| |
I do not mean every distro should use the same packaging format. I mean that additionally to the current packaging formats there should be a format which every distro is able to use.
|
|
peterjs wrote on the 8 Mar 08 at 11:24
| |
And how do you purpose to have these new universal packages fit in to the dependency tree? No two distros use the same package tree. What about binary compatibility? What about source based distros?
|
|
jespdj wrote on the 12 Mar 08 at 15:05
| |
Do you know that you can convert packages from .rpm to .deb and vice versa with 'alien'?
|
|
madjr wrote on the 12 Mar 08 at 18:59
|
@peterjs
>"And how do you purpose to have these new universal packages fit in to the dependency tree? No two distros use the same package tree. What about binary compatibility? What about source based distros?"
CNR.com might be part of the solution, but won't be easier for companies to provide linux "packages and stuff". a New combined format is a must (debrpm ?).
for companies to provide linux "packages" i suggest 1 unified debrmp creating tool, that auto creates packages for every mayor distro (it would look up dependencies of each individual distro in a database without the need of installing all these distros on the PC).
other similar efforts are:
http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/
http://klik.atekon.de/
http://www.autopackage.org/
|
|
Yfrwlf wrote on the 30 Jun 08 at 05:34
|
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/9102/ is another thread about this idea.
I'll post what I wrote there here as well though.
Also very interested in seeing this done. I also believe this is one of the main important things that, if fixed, would increase the adoption rate of Linux a lot.
(Before anyone says it, yes, I already know that Linux is source-compatible, but the problem that needs addressing is not having to compile, and not forcing new users to learn to do so or have to wait to do so.)
Imagine a world in which Linux users can do the same thing Windows users can do with sharing files. While Linux has package managers so users can easily have access to lots of software and Windows does not (by default, any way), Windows users are not restricted to specific repositories to get their software. Windows users can trade and share files easily with each other, while Linux users cannot do so unless they all have a package for their specific version of a specific distro. These so-called "third party" programs shouldn't have to deal with this mess. There should be one "community" or "third party" repository, the Linux Repository, which any servers anywhere can help host.
What needs to happen is this: A package manager should be like any other program, it should be modular and replaceable. Just like if you prefer one web browser over another, or archive manager, or movie player, you should be able to select and use the one you want. A package manager should be able to use and read any format of package, just like those other programs. You should be able to download an RPM or a DEB, and both should be installable on your machine.
If all the required information is lacking from either DEBs or RPMs, this information needs to be added and the standards for both revised. Or, you could add support for a new package container type. Inside this container you could place any package format, so that developers could continue packaging in those formats if they wished, or in new formats. The container format could be called LNX or whatever, and you could simply make the existing package managers be able to read this container format. In essence, it would be a compatibility wrapper, a point of standardization, if needed, so that package managers and package formats can finally be free of one another.
You shouldn't have to install distro X to have access to software repository Y. I believe the only difference between distros should be their package selection and the default configuration of those packages. I believe that companies behind distros may be resistant to this problem being solved, because they may be thinking they can use the size of their repository as a perk of their particular distro. If so, they need to stop it and start trying to play nice on this issue. They need to concentrate on Linux adoption by the masses, not sitting back and letting interoperability problems fester.
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Packaging has been working on this, but I haven't seen an update to the wiki in a while.
Somehow, in some way, there needs to be a standard API/interface for packaging, whatever it takes, and I believe it's very possible and can be done, any problem is solvable, just takes someone with some brains who knows enough about what's going on exactly. The internet uses HTML and CSS, and XML is a powerful standard, so just like those standards, one for packaging is also a must unless there is a simpler way to solve this mess.
+1
|
Post your comment
|
|
|
