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Idea #28802: File management isn't as easy as it could be

Written by Eldmannen the 28 Oct 11 at 14:56. Related project: Nautilus. Status: New
Rationale
Managing files isn't as easy and straight forward as it could be. The filename is what is most relevant to the user, not other data such as the file extension.

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Solution #1: Dim file extensions in Nautilus
Written by Eldmannen the 28 Oct 11 at 14:56.
I would like an option to dim the file extension in Nautilus.
Many web browsers have now began dimming less relevant parts of the URL, such as the protocol, subdomain, path, and query string.
I propose we have an option/setting/feature that does the same Nautilus. Dim the the file extension.


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Solution #2: Dim file extensions in Gtk
Written by Eldmannen the 28 Oct 11 at 15:02.
I would like an option to dim the file extension in Gtk file chooser dialogs.


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Solution #3: Hide extension by default.
Written by thehosh the 29 Oct 11 at 23:36.
I propose that the file extensions are hidden by default, if a user needs/wants them, they can enable it in the settings. Maybe even add a dim feature (File extensions: Hidden/Show/Dimmed).
Of course, this would be system wide.
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Solution #4: Make it optional
Written by jonasPlatte the 31 Oct 11 at 14:24.
I propose to make it an option to show the file extension normally or completely hide it, and set "dimmed" as default.
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Solution #5: Make it optional
Written by ckujau the 31 Oct 11 at 18:35.
If this is wanted at all, I propose to show the file extension by default and provide an option to hide/dim it. The individual user should judge what she considers as "less relevant parts of the URL".
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Solution #6: Linux 101: File extensions mean nothing in Linux.
Written by NictraSavios the 6 Nov 11 at 02:36.
Linux has no concept of a "file extension" like legacy operating systems. You may name files any way you like. The contents/purpose of a file is determined by other means.

This means that a file extension should have no bearing on linux users, a text file is not denoted by .txt, and MPEG layer 3 doesn't have to have .mp3. If a program requires an extension, then the developer should be notified immediately about proper Linux concepts.

This is something that has been a sticking point for Linux users since before Ubuntu was even around, if you are going to give any mention to file extensions, it should be that they mean nothing.

They shouldn't be hidden, they shouldn't be dimmed, they are part of the file name in Linux and should be treated as such, they tell the USER what the file is and the system doesn't care. Its just a name. So if you have problems with them, your in luck.... just ditch them. You do not need them. They are simply there for the user to be able to tell that "this is an image, this is a music file", the system doesn't care. Neither should you.

If this is for compatibility with Windows, then an option to hide them would be sufficient, but please, please, please do not make it default.
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Solution #7: The default view should depend on the directory.
Written by Gregory the 13 Nov 11 at 23:07.
Nautilus has three views right now: Icons, List, and Compact. Considering the optional extra pane and sidebar, and the combinations possible, you might say we have 36 views. If you're looking for files based on something like access time or permissions, the icon view isn't very helpful, but if you're looking at a small set of well known files related to a project, the list might have too much irrelevant information and the compact view might not have enough. If you're moving lots of files around, you might want an extra pane or tree view sidebar instead of two separate windows.

The filesystem hierarchy can be categorized in many ways. One set of categories might be "a user's files" and "everything else". The user's files category would typically include all non-hidden directories and files in the user's home folder. These are fewer in number and more familiar to the user than everything else. In any directory they are usually more type-heterogeneous than files in standard system directories like "/usr/bin".

The icon view is better suited for a small set of familiar files of different types, while the list view is better suited for large sets of unfamiliar files of the same type. The default view for non-hidden directories in the user's home folder should be the icon view, and the default view for everything else should be the list view.

This simple division (user's files, everything else) and use of just two views (icons, list) is only meant to be an example. This is only for the default view when a user first visits a directory and is not meant to disallow changing the view or having the change remembered by file manager.
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Solution #8: Making working with file extensions easy and safe
Written by puxkggn the 27 Feb 12 at 18:15.
Dimming (but only slightly) the file extension is clearer to read.


When selecting a filename and choosing to change the filename from the gui. By default the selected text should be the name selected from he beginning to the first dot. A user can still select the whole name or pieces of it as he or she sees fit. This way it's the most efficient because most of the time most users don't want to change the extension, just the name.

This will help inexperienced or careless users a lot!!!
While still allowing power users to change the whole thing.
While allowing people to easily discard the extensions if they are searching for a specific file name.
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Solution #9: Give extensions a new use, make Nautilus work with it
Written by Aielyn the 7 Mar 12 at 14:10.
Rather than dimming or hiding extensions, how about making extensions actually useful? As noted in Solution #6, extensions in Linux should mean nothing more than "this is how we've decided to end the name of the file".

But there's definite use for extensions. Octave/Matlab use ".m" files, which are really nothing more than text files... but the ".m" tells you that it's matlab code that is in the file. It also helps Matlab/Octave to know that your file is intended to be read by them, in an efficient manner.

But perhaps it would be useful if extensions were also used to essentially "tag" a file. This would provide a useful way to "group" files within a directory without requiring more directories. Then, nautilus could sort files by their extensions (optionally either grouping those with multiple extensions by their set of extensions, or displaying them repeatedly in each of their groups).

This is an extension, if you'll pardon the pun, of the original purpose of extensions, which is to make it easier (for both user and computer) to see what sort of file it is. While someone could certainly choose to name all of their work files "WorkXyz" (which would then sort "nicely" in Nautilus), it would be nicer if they could be named "Xyz.work". Then, if someone makes an m-file for work, it could be named "Xyz.work.m"... and they could have Nautilus automatically group all the ".work" files together.

As such, extensions suddenly no longer need to be hidden or dimmed, but instead become a useful part of the filename.

Propose your solution

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Eldmannen wrote on the 28 Oct 11 at 15:51
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/883138
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662942
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662944

PaddyLandau wrote on the 29 Oct 11 at 12:36
I hate this dimming business. It distracts me rather than allowing me to concentrate on the name.

If this were to be an option, I wouldn't mind -- but I must be able to turn this off.

Eldmannen wrote on the 30 Oct 11 at 16:05
PaddyLandau,
I propose this as option and I agree with you, there must be a way to turn this off.

turbolad wrote on the 2 Nov 11 at 17:20
I agree with the dimming of file extensions, but it should be optional because not everyone likes it.

turbolad wrote on the 2 Nov 11 at 17:30
I would also suggest that if the user changes the filename extension, a message should appear to warn the user that changing the file extension will make the file unusable in other operating systems - Windows being an obvious one.

But idea #11777 already suggests this and I can't post a duplicate idea.

Remember that LESS EXPERIENCED users are now trying Ubuntu and people with less computer experience can easily make mistakes. In this case, users could delete or change the file extension, and then they will complain that their file (such as an .mp3) can't be opened in Windows and they will blame Ubuntu!

Gregory wrote on the 7 Nov 11 at 18:32
As mentioned in solution #6, there are no filename extensions on Linux filesystems. However, there are recognized filename conventions including a type-identifier as part of the name following a full stop. The recognized filename endings (e.g., .c, .h, .conf, .mp3) could be dimmed and endings following a full stop that are not recognized (e.g. .somethingIMadeUp) could be left alone.

Rather than creating a new option, the behavior could depend on the view. If I'm looking at a detailed list view, I probably want to see the actual filename without dimming. In a browser-view (multi-column, like smalltalk) I'm probably less interested in that type information, but I can't see the icons too clearly, so leave the ending and dim it. In the large icon folder view, filename endings that signify type can be hidden because the icon should take their place.

Darwin Survivor (Brainstorm moderator) wrote on the 8 Nov 11 at 16:17
@Gregory. Toggling dimming may be reasonable, but turning toggling hiding the extensions will only cause massive confusion among users who already don't understand the concept of file extensions.

SpyMasterMatt wrote on the 13 Nov 11 at 02:29
I love the idea of dimming the file extensions! +1

However, as for solution #6 i think that the important thing to note here is not how file extensions help the computer (as you quite rightly say, linux does not use them) but the user. I don't think file extensions should be hidden as they help the user to recognise the file type (particularly important for files which have not yet been given an association to a program)

Gregory wrote on the 13 Nov 11 at 21:28
@Darwin Survivor,

Which are you saying: that changing the state (hidden/dimmed/full) would be confusing, or that hiding would be confusing?

I do not think changing the state would be a problem because the user inquisitive enough to change from the default (icon view) will probably figure out filenames soon enough.

Hiding has the familiar type-spoofing security risk (e.g., "avirus.jpg.exe"), but there are ways to deal with that. For example, the file manager could put a flag on the icon of a suspicious file and alert the user who runs it.

Zta wrote on the 23 Nov 11 at 13:03
Maybe Linux doesn't care about file extensions but I do.

File extensions make be capable of knowing what a file contains at a glance; text, pictures, music, configuration, java, ruby, etc. I use file extension because it makes my life easier. I don't believe hiding them is doing anyone a favor.

I've worked with legacy operating system that hide them, and it's horrible, crippling and honestly I think it's patronizing ("Aww, you look confused and too stupid to cope with the information on your own computer. Let me help you be removing some of these details. Now, here's a "Video Clip", a "MP3 Format Sound", a uh.. "RB File", andeerr... "SH File").

puxkggn wrote on the 26 Nov 11 at 15:01
Hiding file extensions should not be done, be made impossible.

When selecting a file name. Let just select all text up to the first dot. This creates preservation of file extensions while users can still rename stuff with easy. Users that don't have attention to detail won't have problems with file extensions disappearing.



This only causes confusion and problems. ESPECIALLY for the less experienced.

Here is a small story about what can happen:
I have a younger brother, when he learned to write some basic for school. (He is not into computers and technology in general.) And also some html. Now when he tried to reference files it didn't work. The computer hid the full name so he couldn't see it. Even with guessing it didn't worked out because there are a number of combinations that can be used. We set hiding of file extensions off. Suddenly finding the right name became easy for him. But windows selects the whole name with the file extension. So when you want to rename something, for people who have no experience or attention to detail, they loose the file extension and the file is not usable any more. So he set file extension to hiding again.
(This happens in windows XP, but not in Windows Vista and higher. The newer Windows don't select the file extension when renaming files from the gui.



PaddyLandau wrote on the 9 Mar 12 at 10:49
Solution #9: Nautilus already allows you to sort by the file type. That, I think, is more useful than sorting by the extension.

However, I can understand that some people would like to be able to sort by extension.

Aielyn wrote on the 9 Mar 12 at 14:36
Of course it's more useful - that's why it already exists.

I'm proposing "sort by extension" as something that can add a bit more usefulness, isn't at all complicated to implement, and doesn't interfere with how anything else works. It also doesn't cause problems for people who don't want to use it, and doesn't require special options in some configuration file or preferences window to activate or deactivate.

Sepero wrote on the 11 Apr 12 at 17:57
I like the idea of Dimmed extensions, but extensions should be hidden by default for the same reason that names starting with a .period are hidden by default-

because the average user has no reason to mess with them

puxkggn wrote on the 13 May 12 at 14:41
They should not be hidden by default.
But not be selected by default.


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