80
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84
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4
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Propose your solution
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puxkggn
wrote on the 8 Sep 10 at 16:36
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Chromium is no XFCE or GNOME application.
You should scrap it.
It's kinda strange that they haven't used XFCE-Taskmanager in XFCE flavor.
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mskitty
wrote on the 10 Sep 10 at 04:16
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Yes! Yes Yes to these ideas!!! To Puxkggn, Firefox is not a XFCE or Gnome application either and yet is used in both unfortunately. Xubuntu is about a balance of reliability and speed. Chromium browser is a fast full-featured browser and fits PERFECTLY into the Xubuntu colors and mission!!! Midori is stable enough that it could be used and is an XFCE related project. Firefox is resource hungry and really slow. I use Chromium in Xubuntu 10.04 and everything is stable and fast...never ever had a problem! Midori crashes once in awhile, but now is very stable and quick too...so would be my second choice. Ditch firehog! We have moved to xfburn (brasero has been useless for some time) now lets move to Claws or Sylpheed for mail rather than Thunderbird mail. Claws and Sylpheed are quick, easy to use, and open fast! Xubuntu users have been asking for these changes for a long time. While were at it, add Pino the lightweight social client and replace Gnome Office with OpenOffice which is just as fast and better in Xubuntu in testing! And please, let's make Xubuntu look like XFCE (like Zenwalk and Debian) not Gnome!!! People want Xubuntu to be an alternative not a poor clone of Gnome!
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mskitty
wrote on the 10 Sep 10 at 04:21
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Additional note: Let's replace Ristretto with Gpicview, like Mint does. Ristretto renders pictures the size of a stamp!
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mulenmar
wrote on the 11 Sep 10 at 07:46
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I like this, but I must point out that Firefox is not as slow or heavy as it used to be. Just change the installation process to only install firefox, not ubufox. The latter is what pulls in the GNOME-releated packages.
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I think you'll find that your suggestion is already incorporated in Lubuntu.
http://lubuntu.net/
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Mancio82
wrote on the 16 Sep 10 at 14:54
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@ mskitty: exactly, i want XFCE DE, not a GNOME Clone.
For test, I've installed Ubuntu 10.04 from minicd; then I've installed a clean XFCE Desktop and GDM.
SOFTWARE ADDED
-Network: Midori and Chromium browsers, Claws email, Trasmission for Bit Torrent and Pigdin and Xchat.
-Office: Abiword, Gnumeric, epdfviewer
-Multimedia: Exaile, Mplayer with GUI
RESULTS: 70 MB of RAM in idle state, about 200-250 MB with all applications opened (with an HD movie in Mplayer, Transmission in task bar, Chromium open) and only about +20 MB with XFCE Compositor and full transparency enable.
Xubuntu 10.04 with default installation take 120/130 MB of RAM; it's too for XFCE DE, or not?
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mskitty
wrote on the 18 Sep 10 at 05:50
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Paddy, This is about Xubuntu not Lubuntu. Lubuntu is not an officially recognized at this time and is only beta. It is very limited with LXDE and has a different mission. Xubuntu is the balanced one between customizability and speed. I see this idea has gotten 37 votes...hello Xubuntu/Ubuntu folk...are you listening? ;)
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mskitty
wrote on the 18 Sep 10 at 05:52
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mule,
Firefox is slow slow slow no matter how you cook it and does not fit in with the mission of Xubuntu....Firefox is perfect for Ubuntu, not Xubuntu.
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mskitty
wrote on the 23 Sep 10 at 04:03
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Wow, this is the most popular Xubuntu idea right now according to the votes.
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mskitty
wrote on the 26 Sep 10 at 05:12
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57 votes and counting..... ;)
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vintik
wrote on the 2 Oct 10 at 13:04
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Each application in Xubuntu has been carefully considered, keeping the goals (i.e. not to be an Xfce-featured distribution, but to strive for the best balance between user-friendliness and performance, see [1]) in mind. For example, Midori cannot really be used yet because it crashes far too often. The Xubuntu team is small, so introducing alternatives and weighing the pros and cons of each app will require volunteers to step in and produce a detailed comparison. Voting at Ubuntu Brainstorm won't help, as the developers do not (have time to) look here, and even if they did, they have other things to focus on.
[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#The Target
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mskitty
wrote on the 3 Oct 10 at 17:34
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Vintik,
Your response highlights the elitist attitude among many in the Ubuntu community, unfortunately. It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever to say that Xubuntu is "not to be an Xfce-featured distribution," because it absolutely is an Xfce-featured distribution!! The community wants XFCE, not a Gnome clone. They have spoken in favor of lightweight changes, whether you agree with them or not. Simply dismissing the community harms the community philosophy surrounding Xubuntu.
Each application should be carefully considered, but we cannot simply ignore the community's preferences for years at a time. This idea is the most popular relating to Xubuntu because the community has been asking for some of these changes for years. It isn't about you or just the developers; it is about the community.
Yes, we should be finding the best balance between user-friendliness and performance. We've come a long way, but we have failed to deliver this balance. You say we cannot use Midori yet, but you said nothing about Chromium-stable which is a faster, well-tested browser that would be better for Xubuntu than Firefox, which is slow. Also, if we keep Firefox, that doesn't mean we can't add a second browser like Midori for users as backup. Many distros have two browsers on default installation. Chromium is used in Lubuntu because of its speed and stability. Claws and Sylpheed have been around for years, tested and they work just fine, Sylpheed in particularly is very user-friendly. Thunderbird, like Evolution are just too heavy for Xubuntu. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a software guru to figure this out. It is user experience talking here.
There are other smart changes that would make Xubuntu better, like using Gpicview instead of Ristretto, like XFCE Mint. Pino, used by Fedora, would make a nice lightweight social client addition. Cheese would make a nice addition, as Xubuntu is often used on netbooks as well. Why have we not added FB plug-in by default to Pidgin like Mint does? These apps have been tested are being used by other distributions that are more progressive and responsive to their communities. It doesn't take that much to add some of them, as we know they work. We're using them!
I think we have some good improvements. I like GIMP, Exaile, Xfburn, and Parole. Xubuntu is becoming a better distro. If developers listen to the community, the ones who use Xubuntu every day, they could learn and improve it.
You say, "Voting at Ubuntu Brainstorm won't help, as the developers do not (have time to) look here, and even if they did, they have other things to focus on."
Wow, talk about sticking your nose up to the community...beyond arrogance IMHO. If using Ubuntu Brainstorm doesn't help and developers never listen, why do we even have Brainstorm to begin with? If no one listens to the community, then maybe we shouldn't have Brainstorm at all!
76 votes and counting!!!
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I entirely agree with mskitty.
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mskitty,
Xubuntu is an Xfce featured distribution, of course (well, at least this is what I believe). Compare old releases with the most recent ones, and you'll see that more and more Xfce applications are chosen (this is also why gpicview won't make it).
> […] but we cannot simply ignore the community's preferences for years at a time.
Yes you can, it's easy, and it's been the main problem of Xubuntu. You have 100 people telling you what you should absolutely do, not always nicely nor politely, and you have 1 person that actually does the work (the number are not real, but the ratio probably is). This is what makes me sad about Xubuntu…
> Why have we not added FB plug-in by default to Pidgin like Mint does?
Again, the answer is easy: because developers (e.g. I) do not use these apps, so they can't decide easily. If you have someone on an obscure blog or forum that keep writing "thou should put pino", nothing will move. But, if you have someone who does take the time to develop this idea[1], raises it on the development mailing list, in a nutshell, *actively* pushes the idea, it will work.
> If no one listens to the community, then maybe we shouldn't have Brainstorm at all!
My guess on Brainstorm is that it was created so that people could say "look, we care about the community" (even if nobody reads the ideas).
Brainstorm is very good for end users, but is a nightmare for developers. I can't find a way to quickly have summaries, ideas sorted in an useful order, etc. Moreover, I don't have much free time, so I don't try very hard.
To make it work for Xubuntu, someone familiar with Brainstorm should step up to act as an intermediate between Brainstorm and developers (e.g. select ideas from Brainstorm/forums/blogs, add more infos/clean them up, and raise them on the development mailing list (xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com).
But, nobody will ever step up for this role, because it takes a lot of time (it's easier to throw a rant and run…).
[1] See, for example https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/DefaultImageViewer and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/DefaultMailClient and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/DefaultMusicPlayer
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mskitty
wrote on the 7 Nov 10 at 01:13
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"...and you have 1 person that actually does the work"
not true and by the way I am a contributer/volunteer to marketing, bug reporting, testing, support, and artwork, not just an end-user
"Compare old releases with the most recent ones, and you'll see that more and more Xfce applications are chosen (this is also why gpicview won't make it)."
Yes, it is good to see more Xfce apps like Parole, Xfburn, etc. but not all the apps will ever be all Xfce, because some apps are just better than others, like Gpicview compared to Ristretto. This is why Mint uses Gpicview.
"But, if you have someone who does take the time to develop this idea[1], raises it on the development mailing list, in a nutshell, *actively* pushes the idea, it will work."
Done. Also, many people are aware of the ideas, they just haven't implemented them. The stable apps are already developed, they just need inclusion. If Mint Xfce can do it on their budget and staff, we can too!
"My guess on Brainstorm is that it was created so that people could say "look, we care about the community" (even if nobody reads the ideas)."
You read them and over 100 other people, so that doesn't make sense.
"To make it work for Xubuntu, someone familiar with Brainstorm should step up to act as an intermediate between Brainstorm and developers (e.g. select ideas from Brainstorm/forums/blogs, add more infos/clean them up, and raise them on the development mailing list (xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com)."
If you have time to read and respond, you have time to share the community ideas. I do. Thank you for sharing in the conversation. Xubuntu is getting better each release, so this is good news. Now, everyone else, if you like the ideas....pass them along. All the best...
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