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leoquant
(Idea reviewer)
wrote on the 18 Jan 10 at 09:46
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Karma/ karmapoints is/are very relative to assess if a substantial contribution is made for ubuntu.
- Forummoderators/admin "earn" no karma
- Wiki contributions, writers of outstanding howto's "earn" no karma, etc etc.
- The only way I use karma for is to assess the amount of work a translator has made for ubuntu.
So it is not true that brainstorm contributions are not taken seriously because there is no karma involved with it..
And very difficult to implement also..
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DrG
(Idea reviewer)
wrote on the 18 Jan 10 at 15:55
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@leoquant -
1. 'lifeless' one of the ubuntu members states "
we don't currently really recognise brainstorm activity - both gardening and idea generation - as a significant contribution. " . I don't think these people are taking brainstom important ,what do you think ? .
2 . Blueprints in Launchpad gets Karma ( they are not translations ) . Brainstorm Ideas are similar to or superior to some of the Blueprints . So it will be good if Ideas are considered as Blueprints . Also he developers reads Brainstorm rarely than Blueprints .
3. Launchpad Karma for Brainstorm contributions are anyway , not that hard to implement - The can be based on the number of contributions or the number of votes for Ideas .
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abentley
wrote on the 26 Jan 10 at 20:01
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Launchpad and Brainstorm are not integrated systems. Contributing to Brainstorm may improve Ubuntu, but it will not directly improve the data Launchpad holds about Ubuntu, and this is why it doesn't generate Launchpad karma. If the systems do become integrated, it will probably make sense for Brainstorm activity to generate Launchpad karma.
Until then, you can always post your ideas as bugs or blueprints. This may also improve their visibility to people who don't often use Brainstorm.
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haydoni
wrote on the 3 Feb 10 at 00:51
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Conflict of interest!
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saji89
wrote on the 3 Feb 10 at 19:31
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Well translation is no silly activity DrG, it goes a long way in localization.:)
As of integrating brainstorm with Launchpad Karma, would require the integration of the presently not compatible Launchpad and Brainstorm. Its essentially two different entities. Here we make the ideas, and at Launchpad we implement it. Giving ideas is a very difficult and creative activity, but i think the implementation is more tuf. Hence I think that's why Launchad and Brainstorm are kept as two different entities.
Anyway we have a a method to recognise Brainstorm contributions within Brainstorm, and Launchpad contributions in Launchpad. I feel that its fair enough.
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DrG
(Idea reviewer)
wrote on the 5 Feb 10 at 17:11
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Hi Saji ,
1. Brainstorm ( idea torrent ) is a module of Drupal . Even some of the basic functionalities of drupal are not utilised in Brainstorm .
2. Brainstorm ideas are similar to blue prints in karma and blueprints are included in karma .
3. I don't meant fully integration . Drupal have tones of module including API for external access ; this can be used to take brainstorm data to launchpad .
4. I am also an active translator and some of the questions or translations are really silly . It ( silliness )is more or less relative .
5. Ideas are sometimes more important than implementation because , innovative ideas later gets life . Just look at atomic field or at your processor architecture . Idea formation and coding are even controlled by different area of brain ; The one in whom former is well developed have a higher IQ . ( Just google to verify ) .
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bryonak
wrote on the 7 Feb 10 at 14:22
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Of course Brainstorm shouldn't get you Launchpad karma points.
Just take a look at it...
saji89 said that "Giving ideas is a very difficult and creative activity"...
Wrong. It's quite simple compared to anything that gives you karma on Launchpad.
Sure, good ideas are valuable hard to come by, but there's extremely few of those on Brainstorm. Again, just look at them.
The majority by far is not very well thought out / fit into the architecture of other operating systems but not Ubuntu / too much effort for very little gain / enabling one part of the users while restricting a significant other part / unimplementable / impementable at loss of other important features / solely there so that their creators can push their ideological points.
I'm playing the sourpuss here. Sorry for that.
Just trying to show how many developers view Brainstorm.
As a developer myself, I rarely consider Brainstorm ideas.
I'm only here if I'm bored, to tick a few green or red boxes, judging out of my gut :)
Bottom line: I don't think we should bother Launchpad with recognition points for users pushing their agendas or requesting some shiny feature they saw in other operating systems here, maybe for the sole reason of feeding their egos.
As unlikely as it may seem, I'm actually trying to help (by explaining things) ;)
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DrG
(Idea reviewer)
wrote on the 8 Feb 10 at 04:02
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@bryonak
Difficulty of creating idea - it is same time easy and hard (i.e relative ). You can post any of your ideas in brainstorm , posting foolish ones are easy ; I also agree with this .
There are translations , like " Menu " , " Windows " etc . in launch pad . Is these difficult ? . This is also relative .
Good ideas are valuably hard to come by, but there's extremely few of those on Brainstorm , I agree with this . But any valuable idea , from any where have to be filters out and defined .
What I felt most is the degree of understanding is also low .
I have repeated 4 times that brainstorm ideas can be similar to launchpad blueprints . you can check this out .
Good or bad , brainstorm contributors are also trying to improve Ubuntu and what is there if they get Karma ?
How many developers view Brainstorm - very few . But what about the % of successful developers ? . Very very few .
Thanks for comments .
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bryonak
wrote on the 8 Feb 10 at 11:43
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@DrG:
Thanks for your thoughts.
I hold the opinion that on average(!), creating ideas here is easier than anything on Launchpad.
Translating "Menu", "Edit", ... is about as easy writing "Hello, I want this and this feature because I need the functionality.". You need to know how to write a bit in english for the latter, but the first requires you to write correctly and often knowledge of XML markup (and optionally bazaar setup).
And usually translators don't just work on the menu bar (which are a few dozen items at most) and the settings (again not that many strings, but more effort than writing stuff here) but also on the documentation and help files.
I know that there were a few good ideas here, out of thousands.
The question is: would implementing an additional recognition system improve this or just turn it further into a popularity contest and increase the amount of half-baked ideas like the most on here, whose quality is generally low?
Take a look at the "Ideas in development" and "Implemented ideas". Fewer every cycle, down to the point where we have zero in both categories for Lucid.
The rating system is meant to filter out the most useful, but the results are not convincing.
Look at the top popular idea for the last 30 days.
The first solution (#3) has a nice visualisation in it and could be useful...
Apart from that, the 12th solution is the only one I'd call thought-out from a developer's point of view:
It takes into account that Software Center is actively and rapidly developed and thus the motivation to implement new features there is high.
It doesn't increase the complexity of the installer by introducing package/repository management.
It doesn't propose something of questionable legality in the US and Japan (bundling codecs with the OS, as this is what is effectively being proposed, and i don't know if a notice like "might be illegal" would hold up in court).
It shows the direction for a possible implementation (debtags).
The earlier solutions are proposals on just about anything you can do with the idea. "me too" kind of stuff and nitpicking.
Things everyone can come easily up with, and which developers can judge better than users (if I were a dev for the Ubuntu installer, I'd say "leave the details to me, come back with good ideas for real improvements").
Harshly said, it's little more than noise (no offense meant to the solution posters).
Developers are put off by that.
And this is supposedly the "best" idea for the last month.
Perhaps it's the easy, candy-like interface of Brainstrom that presents a very low threshold/quality control. Of course there's little "negative" stuff here, moderators are making sure of that... but also not much overly "positive".
Making Brainstorm relevant (some people had high hopes when it was launched) would be a Good Thing IMO.
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DrG
(Idea reviewer)
wrote on the 9 Feb 10 at 05:10
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@bryonak
Do you think some brainstorm pages are enough for expressing full blown ideas ?
For translating one don't want a detail knowledge . You can just look at a dictionary . Knowledge of XML markup is not always needed . On translation , what a computer can't handle is the word order ( ~ grammar ) ( does not mean all translations are very simple ) .But a computer can not produce an idea .( Developing word-order awareness can be contributed by the translations ; but translation in launchpad is not uniform ).
Of the ideas here , most of them are about features , a user wish to show in his OS . Silly ideas here also indicates that Ubuntu needs a lot of improvement .
There are lot of noise ; But don't you think this can be minimized ? . ( See Solution #5 of http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/23056/ ) .
And it is not wise to think a normal user will think like a developer . Users wants Ubuntu to be a lot user friendly so these ideas are here . These simple suggestions are easy to implement also . That means , these simple ideas , with much less effort , can make Ubuntu better ( do you think it is very difficult to implement the specified solution ? ) .
But on the other hand , you may like a more innovative idea but may not be able to code , because of its complexity .
Just look around and see there are lot of ideas a developer likes . But these may not come in the "popular" list .
What appears good may be different for a developer and a normal users . But all writes his ides for the improvement of ubuntu and definitely take more time than simple translations( simply , a translation is more dependent on memory and Idea intelligence ). ( I got no reply about the difference between a well formed Idea and launchpad blueprint ) . So these should be taken as contributions ( karma) .
One thing more ; Implementing these Ideas will make Ubuntu a better OS.
And about this idea . > 200 people likes this Idea . Just tell me about the number of minutes a developer will take , to implement this idea ( with full access to both servers ) , for > 200 Users ( the methods are mentioned in some of the comments ).
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DrG
(Idea reviewer)
wrote on the 16 Feb 10 at 05:26
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The solution just disappeared .
Violation of Brainstorm rules .
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