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Description
Basically, make Add/Remove Programs like Windows or Mac and Ubuntu will be the hottest OS on the planet.
Installing software onto linux is not simple. Other operating systems have an easy method for installing software and removing it. You should be able to download an install package file, double click on it and be presented with an install wizard. After the installation has taken place, there should be an area to remove the program without having to fish through thousands of packages.
This is one area of concern where the other guys hit the nail on the head. Ubuntu needs to follow that standard, just like it followed the title bar system buttons standard, or scroll bar standards, to mention a few.
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Flymo wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 02:15
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ozone, how can I put this?
Are you finding that there is just too much choice? It can be a bit scary, but that's just the freedom to choose.
With a bit of practice using Search in 'Synaptic' you could probably find things that interested you - it's really easy to do once you're used to it, honest!
We've found more games there than we can find time to play - not all work well on our creaky Celeron notebook with integrated graphics, but most do.
There's just so much free software there! Free as in free beer!
And Synaptic solves so many problems at once - it does the downloading, checks the dependency tree, manages updates, and keeps you informed of all this - so it can't be as simple as (say) the Win add/remove.
We loved some old DOS games, but Win XP won't play them - and until we discovered DOSBox in Synaptic, we couldn't play them at all - or use our remarkable copy of 'Dance of the Planets' an astronomical simulator.
Give Synaptic another try - maybe this time it'll work more easily for you. We found it well worth a little effort to get the hang of it.
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Greyor wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 02:27
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Stop calling for Linux dumb-down.
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timwylie wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 02:42
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Ubuntu can already do that with .deb files. If you want to treat it like Windows you can go to the program's webpage and download that file. I think the package manager is something windows is sorely missing to be usable.
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edcrypt wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 03:48
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Windows need a software package manager with support for repositories, searching by the description, dependency resoluction (solving the .dll hell) etc... Maybe apt, conary, portage or yum...
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gespertino wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 06:15
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Ozone: Did you ever booted Ubuntu?
There is an "add/remove programs" option.
You start it, select the category, look for the program, read the description, mark it for installation, hit apply... and you're done.
I wouldn't call this "difficult".
If the program is not in the repositories, you can add more repositories (ppa, software packagers, etc.) or look for a .deb package in the official website of the program you want to install. If you find it, just double click it (like a windows .exe!)
Finally, If you didn't find the program using those methods (something that is becoming quite rare these days) and google didn't give you a .deb package, you can still use the sources. It's a little bit difficult the first time, but it's not impossible.
If you can't compile, just make some friends in the forums and ask them. They may even compile it for you.
You haven't those options in other OSes. So maybe this is the hottest OS on the planet after all.
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ozone702 wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 08:05
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[to Flymo] How can you put this? I'll answer that for you... terribly. Yea, I could write a Bash script too every time I need to install, huh? Get real. Oh, and don't assume anything about me. I've weaved through Ubuntu meticulously and am aware of all the above points.
If users / developers can't see how clunky it is to install software on Ubuntu vs. Windows, this OS will NEVER gain the acceptance its looking for.
If you haven't noticed, the world is getting more tech savvy. As a result, popularity of new technologies take off at an alarming rate (i.e. the iPod). Unfortunately, these phenomena are more infrequent than they could be. I think its wrong for the Ubuntu community to expect people leverage their tech skills to use the OS. A modern OS is should provide a platform for which one can elegantly leverage tech skills to accomplish productive tasks. So I think what I'm reading here is more like putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.
I believe Ubuntu could experience a positive tipping point in regards to its popularity if it were to farm / emulate its competitors good features.
[to Greyor] I'm not calling for a Linux dumb down, I'm calling for Linux mass usability. If you want to keep the repositories, so be it. Just provide another more elegant way to support it so the rest of the world can use it.
Oh well, I tried to help. But unfortunately, the mind set that has kept Ubuntu from becoming a house hold name appears to still be in effect. The positive thing here (the Ubuntu brainstorm) is that this community now has an opportunity to change its mind set so this thing can take off.
Good luck guys.
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drcore wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 10:10
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You say that Windows Uninstall is providing an easier functionality to find software to uninstall? I prefer the Synaptic options of being able to 'search' for installed software instead of browsing through hundreds of programs.
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jonathan324 wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 10:33
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I love add/remove. I think it can't get very much simpler than clicking a box and clicking apply.
Maybe the different program versions in synaptic could be a little confusing. Add/remove is the best software install/remove solution I've ever seen.
Please don't make Ubuntu a windows clone!
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ozone702 wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 14:25
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If its so easy to use, then why can't I walk into Best Buy or Circuit City and take a look at their computers loaded with Ubuntu?
Until this happens, you guys could have the greatest thing since sliced bread & peanut butter but people aren't going to notice it.
Don't get me wrong, Ubuntu has come a long way and I believe its a fantastic operating system. Maybe it could get some charitable help from Google in the form of advertising. I almost wonder if this community is afraid of becoming so popular that they would have to start complying to the will of the masses. When in Rome, do what the Romans do, huh?
In my opinion, I believe that's the price that's going to have to be paid to get Ubuntu to where it wants to go.
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alastairthegreat wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 14:42
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go to applications>add.remove
whats the problem?
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ozone702 wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 14:55
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OMG, installing software is the problem. If Windows is the only thing you know, and you're not a geek, its damn near impossible to do.
This community is full of geeks. Okay, not a big deal, but how come you geeks can't think like idiots? If you're so smart, I think you'd be able to put your brain into lowest common denominator mode and figure this out. Its not a catch 22, so stop treating it like one.
I think the problem here is you're not thinking outside the box. Take the blinders off, and use your mind to think like a dummy... please.
Remember, its dummies we're trying to sell Ubuntu to, right? And please don't tell me its free. Yea, TV over the airwaves is free too, but if the actor can't sell me on his role, I won't enjoy the film.
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Ansible wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 17:36
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I find adding/removing software under ubuntu to be far easier than in windows. To set up a computer for doing C++ development in windows takes at least half a day, followed by a lot of config. To do the same in ubuntu, a matter of checking off the packages and hitting apply. So awesome.
Not only that, but in ubuntu you can use the package manager to see what files were installed, and where they went. It takes an awful lot of mystery out of the process - in windows there is no documentation of that stuff, when you uninstall a program who knows whether it actually removed all its files or not? When you install, who knows what it installed?
I think windows and mac are the ones behind the curve on software installation. Way behind.
On the other hand, I can agree that when a program is not in a deb package and has to be built from source, sometimes it can be a hassle. But on windows you aren't even given that choice! In this case you're comparing a feature that ubuntu has to something that windows does not have. Maybe it could be easier in ubuntu, but you can't do it at all in windows.
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ozone702 wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 22:39
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You rest my case... you don't ever have to it all in Windows. And this is probably the biggest reason its the most popular by a land slide.
All of your points I understand, and most of them I even agree with, except ones where people don't want to dumb down Ubuntu. You can't fire your customers, they fire you so please get this through your heads.
I'm not bashing Ubuntu or the community, I'm trying to get it to understand its biggest weakness.
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peterjs wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 01:24
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Explain to me the fundamental differences between a Deb package and an MSI package? How is setup.exe easier than setup.deb?
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Klaue wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 05:22
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ozone, I'll show you the "Windows-way" to install a Programm and the Ubuntu way.. And then, tell me 1) how is the first way different from windows and 2) how is the second way harder?
Let's suppose i need the Opera browser.
Ubuntu-ified Windows-way:
1) Fire up google, search for "Opera for ubuntu"
2) Browse the Results to get to this page: http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?platform=linux
3) Download the File
4) Double-click the file to install it
5) Use the Software
Ubuntu-way:
1) Fire up ad/remove programms
2) Type in "opera"
3) Tick the Box beside it and hit the big button
4) Use the software
Btw, it is just as easy to remove programs..
1) Fire up add/remove programs
2) choose "installed programs"
3) browse or search the list for the program you want to remove
4) untick it and hit The Big Button[TM]
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ozone702 wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 10:47
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And what if someone is used to using the repository way but the latest version of the software isn't in the repository?
Also, what if you can't get a deb file, but its offered as a tar?
Windows has one way to do it, and that's it.
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aschuring wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 15:49
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"And what if someone is used to using the repository way but the latest version of the software isn't in the repository?"
You mean if it isn't released yet? Then you must wait for an official release, or ask someone to make a release for you. Note that the same does happen on Windows. What do you do on Windows 2000, when the latest version of the software is only available for WinXP and above? You keep using the old version...
"Also, what if you can't get a deb file, but its offered as a tar"
See above. Then it just isn't released yet. Linux being Linux, there is a workaround (use alien, or make). But that you have the additional option of doing it yourself is not a limitation in my view. You don't even have the option of using unreleased software on windows...
"Windows has one way to do it"
Let's see, there's MSI packages for automated deployment, SETUP.EXE for user installs, .ZIP distributions for addons and plugins. And even for those .EXEs, we have MSI installers, NSIS installers, home-made installers and broken installers. That's not exactly one way to do it, is it? Ever noticed that every single game tries to reinstall directX for you, because you just might not have it yet?
Now let's look at the update process. Where is Windows when it comes to updating your software? Does it automatically download game patches for you? Does it download the newer version of Adobe Reader when it is released? Or do all those programs update themselves, because Windows can't do it for them? Most games don't even update themselves. You must check their updates page yourself, and download and install the update manually.
Then uninstalling programs. Ever wanted to uninstall a program on windows, but you couldn't find it in the add/remove programs list? I know I have. Ever had a program in that list that was removed ages ago, but you just couldn't remove it from that list? Or my favourite one: you uninstall a program, and find that the directory where it was installed still exists, and has a lot of files still left in it...
I'm sorry. Ubuntu (or Linux in general) sure has ways to improve itself, but application management isn't the area where it should follow. It leads.
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ozone702 wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 20:59
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To aschuring:
I've installed versions of software on Ubuntu that was either not in the repository or for which the repository had a lessor version of the software. So your comment about having to wait for the next version of Ubuntu is completely out of context here.
My main gripe is when I find a distro which requires me to compile it. I absolutely hate this solution, and feel there needs to be a method provided by Ubuntu to automate it. There are many instances of these that I've run into. Most of which have been drivers. And drivers are integral to the foundation of Ubuntu.
99.99% of all installs for Windows are either a one click file execution process, or automated update by the software / automatic updates. Ubuntu's percentage for this is much much lower.
You guys are only talking about when Ubuntu does it right, which I agree it does part of the time and can do. The problem is it is not consistent. Do you know what makes McDonlads the number one fast food restaurant in the world? One thing, consistency.
Stop coming up with hoky arguments for an obvious deficiency of Ubuntu.
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ozone702 wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 21:02
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Furthermore, if the Windows community were to engage in this brainstorm, I guarantee you this issue would get the most possitive votes.
I tried to be nice, but the gloves are off now... some of you guys are idiots.
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yman wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 11:03
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There are multiple reasons why people use Windows:
*It works with the software they have / want / need.
*It's what's familiar. Change is scary and inconvenient.
*They think it's free because it comes with their computer.
*They think "Linux" is geeky and scary, and Mac is too expensive.
*They are afraid of installing the OS themselves, or generally are afraid of changing anything on their computer.
*If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Therefor, there really is no existing market for Linux powered machines, so stores don't sell them.
Actually, scrap that last statement, since they are starting to sell them now. And from the sound of it, they are meeting success.
As to installation of software on Ubuntu, I'll qoute myself:
"When it comes to installing software, there are two easy ways in Ubuntu:
1. Take a deb file (that's a file who's name ends with the characters .deb) and double click it. You'll get a little installation wizard, except you'll have much fewer steps than in an installer for Windows.
the process:
A. double-click the .deb file.
B. Click on the "install" button in the window that opens.
C. Enter your password.
D. Pass your time playing Solitaire, browsing the Web, or twiddling your thumbs.
Enjoy your newly installed application.
Or:
2. In the GNOME Menu Bar at the top left corner of the screen (or top right, if you have right-to-left desktop) go to Applications -> Add / Remove Applications.
A. Choose the category of the application you want from the list on the left side of the "Add / Remove Applications" window, or skip to step B.
B. Search for the name of the application, or words that relate to what it does, in the search area in the top left corner. You may skip to step C.
C. In the list of applications in the top-right area of the window: Fill the checkbox near the entry of every application you want to install, and empty the checkbox near the entry of any application you want to remove.
D. Click "Apply".
E. Click "OK" in the window that opens.
F. Pass your time playing Solitaire, browsing the Web, or twiddling your thumbs.
Enjoy your newly installed application, or vacated space on your hard drive."
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ozone702 wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 22:50
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You obviously NEVER had to install a driver that needs to be compiled and therefore completely wasted your time posting this crap.
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yman wrote on the 13 Mar 08 at 04:50
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@ozone702:
If I had to, I'd probably give up on doing it myself and pay a computer geek to do it for me. If I were some normal person, like my mom, I'd not even know what the problem is and get someone else to "fix the computer".
To a computer user (not someone who toys around with computers), all that exists is the pre-packaged software, which is VERY easy to deal with.
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ozone702 wrote on the 13 Mar 08 at 05:40
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Yes, I love Ubuntu too yman.
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ozone702 wrote on the 20 Mar 08 at 22:11
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But unfortunately Microsoft is better.
.NET dev is far better than anything with superior multi language development utilizing technologies such as Silverlight, WPF, WCF, LINQ, Microsoft Message Queue (to name a few). Not to mention other superior technologies such as Terminal Services, SQL Server, Active Directories, XBOX, PDA phones and devices, and they're now dabbling with reflective languages for ease in development of true multi-processor software.
And then there's the purchase of Yahoo which will enable them to leverage www search and advertising making them the #1 competitor of Google on every front.
Open Source is competitive, and I'm grateful for its existence which has significantly helped drive the whole industry to excel making Microsoft even better.
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dinar wrote on the 15 Apr 08 at 21:07
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http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/6427/
"special local storage folder for package files"
ubuntu .deb files are working good over network, but file sharing without network is not very good.
Klaue wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 05:22: "Let's suppose i need the Opera browser. "
let's suppose i need install opera browser without network to another computer. suppose i have copied opera_9.25-20071214.6-shared-qt_en_i386.deb, libqt3-mt_3%3a3.3.8really3.3.7-0ubuntu5.2_i386.deb and go with them to another computer, and it says libqt needs libaudio.
on windows is not such problem. there exist one file for installation of opera.
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