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Dr Small
wrote on the 24 Nov 08 at 16:05
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I support this idea, but perhaps it would be more generally accepted if it was a plugin implemented in Synaptic for optional usage that would allow parents/teachers to filter content in Synaptic for children.
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If the name/description is filtered similar to the way the Ubuntu forums filter such names then I would agree to that.
There can be an option for "censor name" that users can uncheck if they so desire.
Default to socially acceptable language with the option to override if so desired.
This solution provides the choice Linux is known for while providing a safe setting for the growing number of consumers that are using Ubuntu on their home computers.
Also keeps it from being overlooked when one installs Edubuntu on a school's system.
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Oh, that poor boy, he must have been scarred for life"
Ever ran 'cat *.c | grep fuck' on the Linux kernel source tree? ;)
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glotz
wrote on the 24 Nov 08 at 16:53
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F--k political correctness.
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diablo75
wrote on the 24 Nov 08 at 17:26
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Hey, I could personally care less about there being a filter. This was submitted on behalf of someone else who is new to Ubuntu. And no, I wouldn't want something like this to be enabled by default. It would have to be an option/plugin.
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Blagrin
wrote on the 24 Nov 08 at 17:53
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Why exacticaly was there a ten year old boy in the synaptics package manager anyways. Is he really that deep into the computer already.
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r0g
wrote on the 24 Nov 08 at 22:17
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-1
It's just a fucking word.
Honestly, no responsible parent should be leaving their child alone and unsupervised with an internet connected computer anyway. Would you let them roam freely around the backstreets of Amsterdam? No you wouldn't. If you don't want your kids to see specific words then you'd better move your ass to Utah and swap their laptop for a childrens bible (coz the grown up one's got all sorts of mucky filth in it!)
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What exactly was the kid doing, perusing Synaptic? That thing's perhaps a little too powerful to let tiny terrors mess around in. Add/remove programs at most for that age. Or the kid could just tell their parent what they want from apt, and the parent can go get it which is probably less awkward.
The bigger issue is, there's a lot of puns and at least mild rudeness in Unix nomenclature (e.g. fsck and scrot are logical enough to those who know what they mean, but to others... well think back to when you didn't know what the acronyms meant and consider your response back then). There's also a lot of steam to be vented by developers when stuff doesn't work. Inevitably we're going to end up with some "too rude for TV" language knocking around - especially in the comments in source code as Eldmannen said.
Personally I hail from the liberal view, and that a good bit of effing and blinding helps vent the anger without really hurting anyone. But it really doesn't matter where you stand. We can't shield kids from these words, whatever you think of them. Not when the media's throwing them out left, right and centre around the clock.
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I was the person who had the problem with the 10 year old. He was not unsupervised. We had installed Ubuntu together - and then I'd had a look around it and worked out what the synaptic thing was.
Later in the day, we went back to the computer, and I recalled I'd seen a game called Brain Training (or similar) and I asked my son if he'd like to try installing it. So I called up the synaptic thing - suggested we search it - so he typed in "Brain". And then he said "Daddy, what's Brainfuck?"
If you want Linux to achieve critical mass on the family computer - then things like this will need to be cleaned it up - because this is the sort of thing that the media will pick up on. If you want it to remain a geeky niche product - then carry on. Sometimes, if you want to achieve something you need to sacrifice a little bit of your god-given inalienable rights to offend people and use profanities - especially when the use of those profanities has no context.
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Ok, I know that a lot of people like to cuss, but I for one don't, and find it offensive. I believe that a content filter can be added to filter out some of these words. For the reason of children, or even adults that don't want to see those words on an operating system.
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i think if Synaptic would load globally for family and you would need a pass word to load more questionable content that would be installed on a system. then the question is user login and how to keep children still safe by user accounts! Some thing the parent and teacher still need to monitor and take action on, it all can't be blamed on Ubuntu developers, i love my Ubuntu that is free, and my 16 year old son, but as a parent you have to keep an eye on...
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@EssexJames
If you were to have used Add/Remove programs, the program in question would not have appeared. In fact, repeatedly searching Add/Remove with a sample of objectionable words yields no offensive results. (As of 27th November 2008.)
Thus, may I recommend it over Synaptic as a more family friendly (and indeed easier to use) apt frontend. The recommendation may be late, but better late than never. I may be wrong but I believe Add/Remove is specifically promoted to the new user over Synaptic.
UNIX and derivatives have long been known as very powerful systems. Its users can be absolutely sure that what they enter will be done. (At least, that's true in CLI mode.) To flog a dead horse of a quote, with great power comes great responsibility. Synaptic gives you that greater power, so beware of the dragons. (Dragons aren't just limited to a few offensive words, but also the functionality that can let you remove funky stuff like critical OS components.) Basically it's not a good place to be as a new user.
May I also add that entering the same, unpleasant sample of words into the Synaptic search, despite its design, turns up very few results / dragons (though even very few is admittedly worse than none appearing). (As of 27th November 2008.)
In fact, many of the returned results include the search string as part of a non-offensive word. For example, results with the word Shitaraba (name of a bulletin board system that I believe is Japanese) are returned from a search term that you can probably figure out. Results with the word "scrap / scrapbook" in them are returned from another, easily guessable objectionable word. Only rarely does the search return results using the words by themselves, in perhaps an offensive way.
@Eldmannen
Fantastic links you've got there, I was laughing all the way to the bank of inappropriate words :D Word of warning to other users, don't look if you are easily offended.
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era
wrote on the 27 Nov 08 at 19:03
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The output of "apt-cache search fuck" returns four hits, three of which are related to the programming language Brainfuck. If that's the scale of the problem, perhaps it would be simpler to just submit bugs against those packages. I can think of other places than Synaptic where somebody could be upset, and blotting it with an asterisk or two is probably not going to get noticed much in the grand scheme of things.
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era
wrote on the 27 Nov 08 at 19:04
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Actually all four are hits on "Brainfuck".
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vexorian
wrote on the 27 Nov 08 at 22:53
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Yes.
There is a very dangerous issue caused by certain words. For example, exposition to the word 'fuck' causes kids to grow up as sex workers, it is critical to stop them from ever reading that word.
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era
wrote on the 28 Nov 08 at 20:49
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@vexorian: while you are of course correct, that's beside the point. As a parent, I can sympathize with the idea that my eight-year-old daughter should not learn new words from using our family computer (if there are any new ones left to learn after she turns off the television).
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Ubuntuforums.org thread #991168
