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Idea #12048: Make the ubuntu installer modular.
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Written by tomd123 the 9 Aug 08 at 16:22.
Category: Installation.
Related project:
Nothing/Others.
Status: New
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Rationale
I have been hearing a lot of complaints from people that say that some packages are completely useless/never used by them. An elegant solution that would stop the complaints would be to include an option to choose what packages from the cd you want during the install. This would only be an option since the other one would be to install the default install (good for newbies/people who like the default).
For example, after a fresh install of Ubuntu, I always uninstall fspot, tracker, bluetooth, ekiga, tomboy, gThumb, the games, and others. Which makes it feel like Ubuntu is a little bloated.
Benefits from this feature:
===========================
1. Users stop complaining about including useless packages. (evolution, xsane, transmission, tracker, bluetooth analyzer, tomboy notes, ekiga softphone, gThumb, fspot, games. To name a few.)
2. Less disk usage.
3. Faster install time, since there is less to fetch from the cd and install.
4. You will not have to uninstall the packages later, which may leave configs and other post installation junk on your system, resulting in a cleaner system.
5. Default is still possible so no one will complain about the new ability to customize the install.
6. (Possible) More advanced users can remove the packages that they don't use before burning to the cd, resulting in a smaller cd to install from. (burning time will also decrease).
*As an addition to number 6, I don't know exactly how the cd filesystem works, but it could also speed up the installation since there will be less time spent searching for the package. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
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90
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106
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16
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Comments
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Ssdg
wrote on the 9 Aug 08 at 17:13
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Good Idea, but they will complain that the dist-upgrade ask the missing packages to be installed, and when the dist-upgrade will not ask them, they will complain that the dist-upgrade is unstable, ...
+0
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Ubuntu is great, but implementing this idea would make Ubuntu just perfect.
I don't use Evolution, Xsane, Pidgin, Ekiga, F-spot and Rhythmbox. I always remove them right after the installation. Not having to install packages would be great.
Currently the installation process isn't any better than Windows' installation process: No choice, eveything just gets installed.
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glotz
wrote on the 9 Aug 08 at 17:36
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@ssdg isn't that a separate dist-upgrade problem?
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Ssdg
wrote on the 9 Aug 08 at 17:48
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Not really, since some packages are removed from one distro to another or moved to different repositories (supported by canonical=>by the communauty), sometimes.
If the source-list isn't up to date, it might cause serious trouble I think.
I don't vote this down, but be carefull voting this up.
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Aetuneo
wrote on the 9 Aug 08 at 17:49
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For #6, that's already possible: there are a few guides around for customizing installation CDs, which explain both how to add additional programs and how to remove programs. It would add a fair amount of time to preparing the disk, but if you do a lot of installs - and always remove or add some programs - it might save time.
(However, there's no easy GUI to do this, at least as far as I know)
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tomd123
wrote on the 9 Aug 08 at 17:50
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@Ssdg, the dist-upgrade just upgrades the packages installed, so there shouldn't be any problems.
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tacone
wrote on the 9 Aug 08 at 20:24
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Nice, but it could add complexity to the live cd installation testing.
That would also break ubuntu-desktop meta package, which is not something we want to do. In order to not break the meta package it should be changed to include the optional applications as "suggested" and not "dependencies".
And even with that, reinstalling ubuntu-desktop from command line would install every suggested application even if the user didn't selected them when setting up the system (see also Ssdg comment).
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ampers
wrote on the 9 Aug 08 at 22:57
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I can see what you are getting at. And providing the person who is going to install from the CD into a computer is pretty knowledgeable, I think it is a good idea.
However, for the 99% of other users who are beginners, I think it might be better to carry on the way Mark Shuttleworth has decided.
You see, he wants to make a package easy for a user who has never used Linux before to feel at home with.
Ampers.
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as i wrote in:idea # 10063
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I disagree, it is easy to uninstall what you want. I think the added complexity is not worth it. I remember being overwhelmed by the installers in Red Hat 9, and I don't want to go back to that.
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Auzy
wrote on the 10 Aug 08 at 11:58
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The core of the idea is a dupe
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tomd123
wrote on the 10 Aug 08 at 15:43
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@roshan.george this is exactly why I added it as an optional button or step or something that you mark. It wouldn't be mandatory to show the option because a lot of newbies would get overwhelmed. I agree with you.
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If this feature was implemented, isn't it going to make the ISO file bigger anyway? Implementing a feature like this in the installer will use a lot of space.
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tomd123
wrote on the 11 Aug 08 at 04:42
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This doesn't seem to add a lot more size to the iso. All you have to do is include some additional code to the existing installer.
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dornik
wrote on the 14 Aug 08 at 07:57
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I agree with Tom.
There are so many "default" applications installed that I never use that just clutter up the system. Evolution, Openoffice, half the default games, Pidgin, Espeak, Anacron, F-spot, Rhythm box, Foomatic and GIMP. Not just this - once they are installed, every time they are "updated", I am presented with more clutter in the "updates available" section.
Add to the above the fact that support for Palm (I don't own any Palm devices), blue tooth support (don't have any devices), Xsane (no scanner), GPhoto2 Libs (dont have a digicam), FLoppy formatter (no floppy drive), CUPS & Printer support (no printer) are all installed by default without asking the user whether he requires them in the first place.
This is really annoying. It would be nice if these could be presented as options during install.
Font installation is another area that could use some level of user customization. When a user has selected his language as "English", I don't see why the installer needs to include Japanese, Korean, Thai, Hindi, Malayalam and other language fonts simply "by default". Maybe I am wrong but this *is* what it appears to do.
@Aetuneo, I am new to ubuntu and creating a "custom cd" sounds somewhat complicated. On a side note, can you please link me to how this is done so I can have a look at it anyway? Ta.
@roshan.george - uninstalling applications using synaptic is somewhat intimidating for "new" ubuntu users (like me). Heres an example to illustrate my point.
I tried to uninstall evolution using synaptic. When i selected the package and chose "mark for removal" I am WARNED by synaptic that several other packages will also be removed, some of which are -
Gnome applets
Gnome panel
Ubuntu desktop
Not knowing what these packages were and purely out of curiosity I decided to have a look at what Synaptic states these are for.
Synpatic states "Ubuntu Desktop" as -
"The Ubuntu Desktop System
This package depends on all of the packages in the Ubuntu desktop system.
It is also used to help ensure proper upgrades, so it is recommended that it not be removed."
Synpatic itself states that this application should "not be removed" and yet removing Evolution is doing just that?!
This would stop any "new" ubuntu user (eg. me!) dead in their tracks.
Synaptics take on "Gnome Panel" is equally worrying, stating that it is "an essential part of the Gnome Desktop" leading me to believe that it should *not* be uninstalled to begin with.
I had similar warnings while attempting to remove the other apps I don't use (eg. GIMP, Open Office etc.)
End result? I decided it would be safer not to remove them at all! Not a happy ending in my book. :(
Like Tom stated, a "custom install" option can be provided for users who want to tweak what will be installed. Let the "default install" remain just the way it is for others who dont.
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@ dornik:
I completely agree.
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borsook
wrote on the 17 Aug 08 at 11:33
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A very good idea, as to it making the install more complicated - currently can have automatic or manual partitioning and nobody seems to complain that an option exists.
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andruk
(Idea reviewer)
wrote on the 21 Aug 08 at 22:10
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I think it would probably be best to have two modes for the installer: simple and advanced. This would probably go in the advanced section.
We could show this at least two ways. One where the user is shown advanced options, or the simple options the whole way through the installer. The second is to have advanced buttons on each "screen" that display more advanced options.
I myself like the second way, because then a user can choose the simple partitioning, but install whatever programs they want.
The two-mode installer idea probably should be (or maybe is?) an idea all on its own, I guess.
I'm rambling. To sum up: +1
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