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Auzy
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 00:50
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I agree entirely.
Our problem is that its near impossible to kill processes whilst they are running amock (this would help, and could give gnome-system-monitor a better nice level too automatically). Microsoft has implemented this perfectly. If there are dodgy processes running, its always VERY easy to kill them. With us, you have to spend 15mins waiting for menus to open, etc. And then since gnome-system-monitor will run with low privileges, it will be quite unresponsive.
+1
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jonasfa
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 02:17
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Ubuntu IS NOT windows
if you do like windows, use windows.
don't try to make ubuntu your free-windows
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There are several system/process monitors available (from package lists),
so it might be handy to be able to choose which one the user would like for a default.
On a good system, this is needed very infrequently.
I currently have a couple in the menu.
I concur with Auzy, a system close to hanging is no situation for waiting for slow menus to pop up.
Hitting shortcut buttons is a great (and very simple) idea!
@jonasfa
I aggree - Ubuntu Is Not windows.
What solution would you recommend to have a task/process utility able to be called up easily/fast when the pc starts slowing down?
(Just please don't suggest the menu, or navigating through folders, and right click on file to run.)
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buggyman
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 04:41
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just do it yourself, don't know about native gnome, but in compiz its easy to make ANY shortcut...
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Laugh at Microsoft all you want, but I'm fairly certain they overloaded Ctrl-Alt-Del with the task manager shortcut for a reason, namely the fact that the key combination triggers a system interrupt (if I'm not mistaken) - meaning that unlike most other shortcuts it can be accessed _even when most of the rest of the system has grinded to a complete halt_.
Hence, Ctrl-Alt-Del as a system monitor shortcut isn't imitating anything but good sense.
Besides, jonasfa's "Not Invented Here" attitude is not the engineering approach we need to solve bug number 1.
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Auzy
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 05:58
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WTF Jonasfa.. I am f*cking sick of people who see the word windows and vote it down.
Are you that blind that you don't recognise that when your system is bogged down, that there is no easy way to fix it currently except Ctrl+alt+backspace (kill X). Yeah, killing X is a nice solution, except in Windows I can kill just the dodgy program.
Some of the Linux crowd are so short sighted, that they have lost touch with the rest of the world (they are so closed minded, they hear all the crap of Digg/slashdot, and they become scared, without actually testing these things themselves).
And they are only using Linux because it isn't mainstream, so they feel safer.
I maintain a big +1. Not neccessarily that key combo, but this is a major issue. And it should work out of the box this way. Telling people when they ring up text support that the only solution is to kill X is terrible. Just because firefox goes haywire, why should they sacrifice their work in openoffice?
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HDave
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 13:24
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I'll give this +1, but only if we add "System Manager" to the screen you already get when you hit ctrl-alt-delete (logout, shutdown, etc.). Don't get rid of that screen, lets make it better.
As to the other point here, I keep seeing that "Ubuntu IS NOT windows" quote used here and on the forums as if it is supposed to provide some deeply profound meaning.
To me it is more fodder from drive-by ideologues. Every great tool incorporates lessons learned from all previous generations. We all want Ubuntu to be great, adding a capability we all really like from Microsoft Windows just makes sense. Same goes for MacOS, Solaris, Palm, etc.
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kdm
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 16:10
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Most are probably aware of this, but for those who don't, you can add a convenient link to the 'System Monitor' and 'Force Quit' application by right-clicking one of your panels in Gnome > Selecting "Add to Panel" > and then selecting System Monitor & Force Quit.
Then any time you want to launch either, you just click on the panel.
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Taxman
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 16:36
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Ideally both the current behavior and the system monitor would be available. It's nice to be able to shutdown in very few key presses/mouse clicks with the current behavior but this would also be a nice addition. I think there is enough room on most screens for it.
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robrwo
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 17:00
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FYI: Microsoft has a task manager and lock/login associated with Ctrl-Alt-Del for security reasons, dating back to Windows NT days, to protect against viruses trapping that keyboard combination.
The key is to have a keyboard shortcut (tt doesn't have to be Ctrl-Alt-Del. ) that runs the task manager of your choice or xkill. You can set this up easily enough.
Whether it should be a default setting is another matter.
By the way, Ctrl-Alt-Esc in Xubuntu runs xkill, and it's easy enough to Gnome and KDE to create shortcuts
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lproven
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 17:12
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Good idea, but the default Windows binding for TaskMgr is Ctrl-Alt-Esc.
Some editions of Windows (XP Home?) *do* bind Ctrl-Alt-Del to TaskMgr, but on most, it's "kill current app" (Win9x) or switches to a special dialog box with buttons for logout/shutdown/restart/change password/taskmgr (XP Pro, most editions of Windows Server etc.)
However, absent such a dialog in Ubuntu, yes, Ctrl-Alt-Del to SysMon makes sense. It was one of the optional tweaks in Automatix.
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Hawke
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 18:05
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It's not Ctrl+Alt+Esc, it's Ctrl+Shift+Esc.
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coolaj86
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 18:29
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+1 for both ctrl-shift-esc and ctrl-alt-del
I don't care if it was a windows idea first, it's a common convention that makes sense and has no logical argument to stand against it.
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gsiliceo
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 18:30
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Ubuntu should be better than windows not worst, right now its easier to work with the task manager than the system monitor.
This wont be done sorry, YOU HAVE TO LEARN LINUX DONT EVER SPECT THE OPOSITE, LINUX WILL NEVER LEARN ITS USERS.
(at least the linux desktop)
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andruk
(Idea reviewer)
wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 20:21
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gsiliceo: No need to yell, we can all read lowercase letters just fine. ;-)
This has been asked for since I've been around (past 2 years), and I don't see why we can't do it - other than copying Windows. I think Auzy hit the nail on the head about the not-Windows thing, as that is an extremely unproductive attitude in general.
+1, useful, regardless of who invented it first
Just make sure its secure, so malware can't access it (yes, I know Linux doesn't have viruses/malware, but it's because engineers have thought about attack vectors during design, and not as a whimsical afterthought - let's continue that line of thought).
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As stated in some comments above;
It is
Easy to Make a Shortcut.
This is great news, because that means it will be easy to incorporate the very simple amendment to the Ubuntu system.
It will also make for one of the smallest ever update files.
====================
Key combo vs panel icon
I have noticed that when the PC goes slow,
I am using firefox, and there is often also a very recent new message that there are updates.
What I have noticed is that mouse clicks on panels tend to not be recognized/remembered by the slow system, unless you hold it down long enough for the mouse to be querried/polled by the system again - this can be up to a couple of 5 minutes.
[see ;
"Idea #10123: System goes slow when updates are available"
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10123/
Sometimes I just hit the reset button on the PC box.
Yet a diagnostic test to check for the responsiveness of other human interfaces (ie keyboard), done by typing into the text editor, suggests that the keyboard is more likely to be responded to than the mouse, when the system is in that state.
So.
Out of panel icon, and key combo shortcut - I'd have a preference for the key combo.
=====================================
re: jonasfa "Ubuntu is Not Windows"
and
re: auzy "I am ******* sick of people who see the word windows and vote it down. "
Yes Auzy - I agree.
But your language is a bit unbecoming, and out of character, though I find it very easy to forgive under the circumstances.
We can observe that no constructive suggestion has emerged so far, as an alternative to "help" advance the solution.
IMO - I find it odd how the "apparently" pro-ubuntu persons actually have a tendency to comment and vote down the occasionally good idea (which mentions windows).
The tenor of the comments (and sometimes the "ideas") is to belittle or shame,so that people may become fearful of mentioning the "W" word (W..w..w..w - ooh I am beginning to stutter already).
What ever the stated allegiance , and intent, the effect is to contribute in some small way to the stifling of Ubuntu's advancement. So the narrow-mindedness works in the favor of windows.
This raises the question of Real motive - as indicated by the effect.
So when you say things like ;
"Some of the Linux crowd are so short sighted, that they have lost touch with the rest of the world ..."
please consider that the the "linux crowd" that you have named are a very large group, but the people that you are meaning to talk about may not all be Real linux supporters, and may actually be a very Real part of the World.
May I refer you to my most unpopular suggestion so far?
Surprise!
It is regarding the "W..w..w..w" word ?
"Idea #11020: Admin - check that negative voted ideas not being voted by Other OS supporters"
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/11020/
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ilektron
wrote on the 16 Jul 08 at 08:27
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What ever happened to alt-sysrq? If ubuntu gets to the point that the system becomes so unresponsive that you need ctrl-alt-del than what good will opening system monitor do? Usually it is something related to X that keeps the screen from refreshing.
Maybe its just all the bad experiences when I had to press ctrl-alt-del that keep me from wanting this shortcut included, but I never if ever use the system monitor. top, killall, xkill, etc do the trick for me.
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I agree with all who said "we don't care who invented it" .
We have to keep our mind open to ideas, whoever invented it.
For me 2 main reasons plead for the ctrl+alt+del:
_ It's convenient (hard to press it by mistake)
_ A lot of people is used to it (it's like the ctrl+c / ctrl+v: it's better when everybody -windows,linux- uses the same shortcuts, why would we make it more conplicated for everybody ?)
+1 :) !
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Auzy
wrote on the 16 Jul 08 at 13:10
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@ilektron: you could work around that by giving the kill program a good niceness level somehow (would be difficult though, due to permissions and such).
Maybe not gnome-system-monitor, but we gotta have something,
Even OSX (yes, the famed OSX that Apple keeps suggesting never crashes) has ctrl+Apple+escape, which allows you to keep a malfunctioning process (which in most likelihood, will be something Apple coded).
We cant pretend the problem doesn't exist.
In fact, Vista handles it the best way probably at the moment (but also a somewhat occasionally annoying way), they detect frozen processes, and ask if you want to wait for them to operate again, or end them. Unfortunately they set their timer a bit early though, so these messages pop up all the time under heavy system load.
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Auzy
wrote on the 16 Jul 08 at 13:47
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S/keep/kill
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diegoj
wrote on the 16 Jul 08 at 23:01
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Can't Ubuntu copy things of other OS? It's clear to me that ctrl+alt+supr is an universal shortcut.
Ubuntu has to be as easy as people need/want.
PS: Stop the flamewar
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> ilektron wrote on the 16 Jul 08 at 08:27
> Maybe its just all the bad experiences when I had to press ctrl-alt-del that keep me from wanting this shortcut > included, but I never if ever use the system monitor. top, killall, xkill, etc do the trick for me.
I agree completely, ilektron. Whenever I (myself) need to kill a program, I go to the terminal and use the same commands. However, I posted this idea for the benefit of everyone. Must we insist that every new user learn to use the command line?
We need to make a better operating system for everyone keeping it robust for power users who never use things like gnome-system-monitor, while keeping it user friendly like Mac OS X. I do not see a conflict in those two goals.
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gsiliceo
wrote on the 18 Jul 08 at 05:35
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Its a good idea, but it wont happen, becasue the devs are in love with the current option and they don't see absolutely no reason to change it, doesn't matter what we all say.
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ilektron
wrote on the 18 Jul 08 at 06:36
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>strattonbrazil wrote on the 17 Jul 08 at 17:37
>... Must we insist that every new user learn to use the command line?
Hmmm... I wish... I wish.
Isn't most the functionality of system-monitor that most novice users would need encompassed by the dialog that allows a user to force a windowed process to quit? The linux kernel handles this much better than windows and most often successfully terminates the process.
I think that if you gave the novice user the ability to accidentally open system-monitor, you might have to start hiding system processes, or separate out programs and services to let the user know which programs are ok to kill -9.
Or... we could trick the novice and have ctrl-alt-del change to tty1 and run top... Teach them without them knowing...
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Auzy
wrote on the 18 Jul 08 at 08:20
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@gsiliceo Call me dumb, but I don't recall any of them saying that at all. No admins posting to this thread here that I see..
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gsiliceo
wrote on the 18 Jul 08 at 21:00
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I've been in the gnome mailing list, believe me it wont happen.
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yzarc
wrote on the 19 Jul 08 at 10:12
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+1
why not? because it's windows like? :( I thought ubuntu was meant to users not for develops.
Every user sometime tried ctrl+alt+del and just got nothing, what's the problem to give them what they want, just to have a pleasure of saying "it's not windows, you're a stupid win user the linux will never curve at your will!".
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mfx
wrote on the 19 Jul 08 at 23:32
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jonasfa
+1
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bruce89
wrote on the 20 Jul 08 at 00:31
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Utterly ridiculous. No doubt Ubuntu will implement this though.
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I agree with this idea.
Sometimes people are quickly to reject an idea, if they have seen the same feature in Windows.
Just because Windows does something, doesn't mean that we must not do it.
I agree that we should not do everything as Windows does, but we don't need to shy away because Windows have done it.
If its bad, we shouldn't do it, if its good we should do it.
Windows have some dumb stuff that we shouldn't do. Like shutting down your computer from a button named "Start", not to mention ActiveX. But Windows have some stuff that are not bad.
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yurek
wrote on the 21 Jul 08 at 10:50
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I absolutly not agree, this combination is reseved to kill graphical interface,
I propose
ctrl + alt + enter
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yzarc
wrote on the 21 Jul 08 at 12:51
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I think to kill graphic interface is ctrl+alt+-backspace
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Auzy
wrote on the 21 Jul 08 at 13:10
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yeah, killing the interface is definitely backspace Yurek.. Ctrl+alt+del is the most consistent though with peoples expectations..
@gsiliceo, where's the mailing list link. Because if the gnome developers can't see how important something like this is, I don't think I can look at gnome the same way again.
I'm quite sure any other operating system wouldn't have hesitated at all when they implemented their task killers. In fact, Linux is the only OS for a very long time I have had to force kill everything to recover when one of my programs started sucking up all my ram.
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biomega
wrote on the 21 Jul 08 at 18:17
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CTRL+ALT+DELETE is nice for shutdown, I don't need the gnome-system-monitor at all, and most people neither...
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pjoul
wrote on the 24 Jul 08 at 08:40
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It will be nice to have an option to assign any key to invoke gnome-system-monitor.
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korvins
wrote on the 24 Jul 08 at 09:34
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big +1, current screen is useless since it is very accessible already.
Programs going crazy it is very common on any operating system. And I don't expect this to change for yeeears.
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This is such a great idea.
(sometimes it takes a silly second suggestion to appreciate the sensibleness of the first suggestion - so only read this for a fun adventure)
Silly second suggestion;
==================
For those who do not like the idea of doing something similar (or same as) to windows, we could use a different combination of keys.
But as has been pointed out above Ctrl+Alt+Del generates a hardware system interrupt, so this is very helpful.
In order to make a different combination of keys, and still be able to generate the system interrupt, I suggest that we swap or re-label a key on our keyboard.
So the same button switches get pressed, they just have different buttons on top.
mmm... ooh ... look at the keyboard.
The button between the Ctrl and Alt (on the left) is the same size as either, so could be swapped with either - you have a choice.
Oh! What a satisfying key combo - If you do not want to be like MS Windows by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Del, you could be like Linux and press Ctrl+Del+Windows.
But would we really want to use the "windows" button in a combo that can be used to kill linux?
We could save a bit of keyboard button prying, and count ourselves fortunate to stick with Ctrl+Alt+Del.
+1
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@ jonasfa wrote on the 15 Jul 08 at 02:17
I don't care about MS Windows, so I like this idea.
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A keybind for bringing up the gnome system monitor should be added if there is none already. Control alt delete seems to be the industry standard, even though it's been defined by Microsoft. Actually, Vista doesn't even bring the old control alt delete menu up when you hit it. It brings up something far more annoying.
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nami
wrote on the 28 Jul 08 at 11:44
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It does not necessarily have to be those keys, although everyone is used to those keys, as long as the keys are set by default.
Also, for the people who are against this idea because it is microsoft lol. get over yourselves.
Get rid the ability to read+write microsoft word files and watch how fast people will stop using linux. Basically a huge chunk of users will end up ditching linux.
So basically, linux would not be where it is today without microsoft. That is the unfortunate truth.
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ilektron
wrote on the 31 Jul 08 at 02:40
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Yes, maybe if Microsoft never existed the whole world would be using unix based OS's. You have a good point.
I'm going to update my complaint and say what bugs me is that I use CTRL-ALT-DEL to try to soft reset my machine. I'm not opposed to some keyboard shortcut opening up system monitor. I would rather not have the first press of the shortcut try to bring up some app when my system is already bogged down.
The distinction that I see is that the linux scheduler is more robust and fair than windows. The shortcut was original intended as a system interrupt to allow the user to regain control of a machine where a thread had monopolized the CPU. I would be less opposed to change the shortcut to kill X to CTRL-ALT-DEL because usually when a linux system 'freezes', X has crashed. (Plus in my opinion CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE is a lot easier to unintentionally push)
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Many BIOS have ctrl+alt_del bound to a hardware reset, so the convention isn't just Windows-centric. I think the one of the nicer features of an X windowing system is keybinding any command to any key combo, within reason. This functionality exists today, so my vote is that this is not an idea.
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droetker
wrote on the 16 Aug 08 at 08:48
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Yes, this is a duplicate if #84, but due to a bug I can't set this any more.
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TWO
wrote on the 29 Nov 08 at 22:09
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What I don't understand is why ctrl + alt _del is a possible option under Kubuntu to bring up the 'task manager' but not the case under GNOME Ubuntu?
Furthermore, there was the option under Kubuntu- at least until Hardy Heron- where you could press ctrl + alt + esc to execute a kill window command which was a good method for getting rid of frozen windows.
There is the "force quit" button available for the GNOME panel but if you ask me, the folks at GNOME need to start looking at a lot more of the functionality provided under Kubuntu by default.
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Is anything happening with this? I see tons of votes, but the idea seems dead. There hasn't been a comment for a year now.
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Tut tut tut!
11 months and 3 days!
Don't post such a bumping comment before you get to something REALLY preoccupating!
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