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Done!
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(1303)
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Written by amar the 28 Feb 08 at 14:28.
Category: System.
Related to:
Nothing/Others.
Status: Implemented
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Description
It is very frustrating when you get caught out after 30 boots and the system does a full check. Especially if you are about to give a presentation or you just need to read one bit of information. The Ubuntu team have done a great job of speeding up the boot time but this irritation undoes all the good work.
Possible solutions and further explanation:
http://micrux.net/?p=52
Tags:
(none)
Developer comments
This is implemented in Hardy Heron.
You can press the escape key to cancel the disk check.
This change was part of a more global set of changes to usplash, you can read more about it here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsplashPolishSpec
Attachments
Duplicates
Comments
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Taku wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 14:36
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maybe the best thing would be to switch as soon as possible to a better FS :-).
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dexae wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 14:50
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In Hardy you can cancel fsck and see it in graphical mode
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madman2k wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 15:53
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ext4 is said to be able to do a full fschk on a 500gb partition within 4s. So I doubt its worth investing here, when ext4 is coming in near future...
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ubersolid wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 16:37
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I have 250Gb drive formatted with ext3, is it possible somehow to gave fsck run parallel with the system booting up? Fsck takes a long time going through the "in use" 170Gb every 30 boots.
OS is installed on physically separate hard drive.
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Corey wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 17:24
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You don't have to wiat for the heron. You can cancel fschk now by hitting Ctrl-C
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Veejay wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 22:17
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Pretty lame that this one got 160+ votes since it would obviously require modifying ONE file to prevent this check every 30 boots.
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randomnote1 wrote on the 28 Feb 08 at 23:49
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This really is a necessity. It is an annoyance when you need to boot up for something very quickly, but I think it's better to have the filesystem check itself than have it crash unexpectedly. That being said, I tend to skip through the filesystem check most of the time.
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jsnow wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 00:02
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Is there a message displayed on-screen in Hardy Heron indicating that fsck can be skipped by hitting esc or ctrl+c ?
I think running fsck periodically is important, but being able to postpone the check until next boot is also a good thing.
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rstoya05-lx wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 00:03
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Well, the only thing that's lame is the fact I had to spent a couple of hours researching this topic to decide how to deal with it. It does not help the impression that in Linux everything requires time to figure out.
My suggestions is why not put a dialog screen after logging in that says "Hey you've booted more than 30 times? This is what the risk is. This is what we suggest you should do. And this is how you can customize how often this message should appear.
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CalcProgrammer1 wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 00:36
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This DEFINITELY needs to be implemented...even WINDOZE lets you cancel a disk check when you really want to use your PC fast. I think we can hold off on the disk checks until the user has time to run the scan, rather than making the user wait, Especially when the user is running on batteries, they don't have time to waste checking the disk.
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moaxey wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 00:37
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i think the irritation could be removed with a notification (on shutdown or anytime during the session before fsck is required) and the option to postpone before restart.
I always run the system off a small partition for this reason (to minimise scan time) but that does lead to other problems.
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clickwir wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 01:30
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@rstoya05-lx
Sorry you had such trouble. But it is lame that it took that long to find a solution. I don't think it should have taken more than 1 minute of your time to do a google search on what file to edit. Hell, including the time to edit the file and the google search should take you less than 1 minute.
Now if you're talking about "how to decide", well that's what lots of research is for. You can't really come to a good decision with only a little bit of research.
However, I do agree that it will be nice in Hardy that this is able to be bypassed. So, since this is really already fixed in the next release... can we remove this brainstorming option and get some better ones up here?
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lcampagn wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 01:32
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I think the best solution for this problem would be to allow the disk to be checked _while the machine is running_. If any errors are found, then the user can be notified and proper measures taken. This way disk checks can take place with all the other cron jobs that run early in the morning when you're not using it.
I can't think of a good reason that the filesystem integrity can't be checked while it is mounted, except that fsck does not implement this.
It would be even better if the filesystem could be _repaired_ while mounted, but one step at a time..
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Cybercod wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 01:40
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AutoFSCK works well for this, it just needs to be incorporated
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wolfier wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 01:57
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Could this option be dangerous?
How about an option to mount the disk as read-only if we skip fsck. JUST to be on the safe side - and you can still continue with your presentation.
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pajamian wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 02:11
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@wolfier: Not really, it wasn't dangerous the other 29 times your system booted without being checked, why would it be dangerous on #30? The point of the occasional check is just that a check is done on occasion to make sure that everything is still good. Putting it off one or two boots should not be a problem.
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gnuk0001 wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 02:31
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I disagree with this idea, since you probably haven't realized, but you _want_ that fsck if you are using the default ext3 filesystem.
You can always use another filesystem which does not need to be fsck'd that much (is it "that much"?) like reiserfs or jfs.
I consider jfs a fast and reliable filesystem in ubuntu linux, try it.
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dhardy wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 02:59
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I don't know much about file systems but could this be run on shutdown instead? This seems like it would be the best of both worlds. Most the user can simply initiate the shutdown and walk away. Doesn't really matter how long it takes.
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arzajac wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 03:23
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Running an up-to-date Gutsy, CTRL-C does *not* stop the fsck. I just tried it.
I agree that the best implementation would be to check and fix a filesystem on a running system in the background.
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ubuntiac wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 03:27
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I second AutoFsck. It asks you when you shutdown if you want to automatically do the fsck and shutdown before turning off or skip until next time. Now if they could just get rid of the annoying "reminder music" it would be perfect.
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meticulo wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 04:13
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this is indeed very annoying, i ran into when i was working wwith a team for my management class, we had 5 minutes, no other computers, and mine had to disk check...
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bunkacid wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 04:42
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I find it irritating to have to fsck a large partition, but the piece of mind is worth the wait.
Having a machine not ready for use only implies you did not allot enough time to prepare for your presentation or task.
I'm surprised no one has commented about using tune2fs to increase or decrease the mount count.
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technofreak wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 04:57
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IMHO, we need a better tool and better enlightenment about fsck, why it is done and how can it help us. It is really frustrating to see it when you are in a hurry to boot your machine and do something urgent. Though you can cancel it and move on, there should be a better more usable way to manage it, something like a GUI front end to customize it and/or a little pop up after loging in, reminding us that we need to run fsck and can select it to run fsck at the immediate next shutdown.
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acreman wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 05:02
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I personally have no problem with fsck every 30 boots. It makes me happy to know that my system is trying to keep itself alive rather then crash on me. I ran into too much trouble on Window$ years ago with it crashing all the time (BSOD loops). Fsck is necessary and I think it should be a required thing to have it check every 30 boots. Speed it up if you want, but force it to happen.
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houstonbofh wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 05:38
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I also vote for autofsck. It allows you to postpone, or have fsck run on shutdown when convenient. Just a cancel means it will just get canceled every time.
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jangid wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 08:11
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autofsck seems to be a good idea to solve this problem of delayed booting.
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Velvet Elvis wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 08:16
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Changing the default filesystem seems like the sanest thing to do.
Anyone seriously considering this need to read the following:
http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Data_Errors_During_Drive_Communication
(I think that's the one I was thinking of, I didn't read the whole thing.)
Ya' know, breaking all the rules and incorporating ZFS into the linux kernel would be par for the course for Ubuntu at this point . . .
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ssam wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 10:09
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i am happy with a fsck every 30 boots, but use autofsck to make it happen at shutdown
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Tom Mann wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 11:24
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Could the fsck happen parallel to the booting of Ubuntu, maybe with a popup when you first login saying that the system is undergoing disk maintenance?
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wolfwitch wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 13:49
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What really bothers me, and is probably related to some video driver issue, is I don't even know fsck is running. I'll get a black screen and it appears the boot has locked-up. I have to CTRL+ALT+F7 to actually see the fsck screen.
I'm glad it can be aborted with [Esc] in Heron, although for me- it is important that it run.
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dan.fernandez wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 15:26
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@Tom Mann,
no, the fsck must be done with the partition mounted read only, something that defeats completelly the "do it while booting" idea: read only system means "where's my /tmp" and problems like that for a lot of programs.
Maybe this is too much of a hack, but... What about making the schreduled "check of the 30 boots" on shutdown, instead of on boot time?
I usually are in a bigger hurry when starting the laptop, and once the hibernate/sleep problem is resolved it whould make more sense.
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twade wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 19:15
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It's nice to see that this is going to be fixed in the next version, but it should never have taken this long. It's a serious issue to be forced to wait a significant amount of time unexpectedly at boot-up, especially when it could have been fixed with about 3 lines of code:
if boot_count > 25
print "disk has been mounted $boot_count times. Run fsck now? Y/N"
if Y
run fsck
if N
exit
Now how hard is that and where do I put the fix?
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rawsausage wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 21:50
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The developer comment is good. However this could have been achieved also by changing to some saner default fs - for instance XFS. It would have helped the other requests for more performance (especially in the booting phase).
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ketilwaa wrote on the 29 Feb 08 at 21:58
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Hear, hear! I really o not understand why this hasn't already been fixed. This have annoyed me for years... On a laptop with several partitions it is especially mind numbing, because fsck comes into play so often
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TorF wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 00:15
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I'm agree with people saying check should be done during shutdown !
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wolfier wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 03:28
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@dan.fernandez
I cannot see why fsck can be done in parallel with the rest of the boot.
Of course, in reality it probably will mean decreased performance. However I think it is possible. Where's /tmp? Just use tmpfs or a ramdisk. It's how all the LiveCD distros boot. Problem solved.
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javaiscoolmike wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 08:00
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This is how I would like it to be implemented:
On the 29th boot:
the system boots normally. except when after X loads, an applet pops up saying some thing like "A normal/regular disk maintenance check will be preformed on your next boot/reboot" the applet provides an option too:
1) chance this to to run on your next shutdown
2) to wait N days/reboots before running the maintenance
3) to stop running this maintenance forever(Giving a big warning of this bad choice...)
4)....
on boot 30:
if option (1) was selected fsck is run.
on boot 29+N:
if option (2) was selected fsck is run.
*********************************************
Note:::
when fsck is running also provide ALL the options listed above(1,2,3,4...) and offer the option to run fsck on next boot(crt-C type interruption)..
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christopher_lees wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 09:33
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I waited 7 minutes for my 500 gigabyte hard drive to fsck yesterday. Even a Windows Vista user will tell you that 7 minutes is too long for a computer to start up :-)
I second the suggestion of a shutdown fsck.
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dtrask wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 20:26
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At least allow the opportunity to bypass at that point...I agree...if I'm about to give a presentation, I don't have time to wait.
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noamsml wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 20:46
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...or just use ReiserFS by default.
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enigmafan wrote on the 1 Mar 08 at 21:02
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...or just hibernate very time instead of shut-down.
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arekkusu wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 13:20
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I didn't read every post but anyway:
-Canceling the check is something that will be in Hardy 8.10 AFAIK. (I have seen it in the alpha version and while it didn't work properly I expect that to be fixed in the final version. Should be a non-issue)
-The fact that the check is made every 30times might be a problem. Some ppl hardly never shutdown (hibernation/suspend).
Some do it everyday (suspend doesn't work...).
How about having the check interval in days (I remember reading this can already be easily done so what should be the default is the issue).
I don't know if it could be (easily) possible to use the computer uptime a way to determine when the check need to be done. (?)
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bubieyehyeh wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 17:16
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Its good to hear you can press escape to avoid the disk check at boot in Hardy. But I still prefer the way autofsck works.
I usually turn on the PC, and pop back a minute later, without autofsck I would have missed the chance to escape the disk check, and will be unable to use the PC for 15 minutes.
Also with hardy a disk check will be required at some point. I prefer disk checks on shutdown where I don't need to be sitting around waiting. I leave it checking knowing it will power down afterwards.
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freiheit wrote on the 2 Mar 08 at 22:21
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It's good to hear that we'll be able to cancel the check at boot up in Hardy, but does that mean it'll happen the next time you boot, or will it wait another 30 boots?
Some have suggested that the check happen at shutdown instead. I can't say I'm fond of that idea unless I can opt to cancel that as well. I'm running on a laptop. Often when I want to shutdown I need to shutdown NOW.
The best idea I've heard is that fsck be made safe to run on a mounted disk so that it can run in the background.
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dan.fernandez wrote on the 3 Mar 08 at 23:29
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wolfier,
I don't know if it can be fixed, but the golden rule right now is never, never, NEVER run an fsck on a mounted file system! You will almost certainly regret what happens to it. Corrupted partition, lots of files moved to lost & found, heavy general wreckage and other cataclims alike.
The exception to this is if the file system is mounted read-only, in which case it is safe to do so. But then, running read-only means any program that needs to write to disk is out of luck. I don't know if it affects fifo files (pipes), but anything that needs read-write access to /var/spool or some other directory may find it's startup jeopardized.
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tomtom_fr wrote on the 5 Mar 08 at 09:46
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Oh yes, please fix it !
I have 2 harddisk and when it checks my slave one, it just block here, saying that this drive was not checked since 20 times...
I have to restart on a live CD and run a fsck command by myself every 20 days...
quite bothering ;)
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Estesark wrote on the 6 Mar 08 at 16:10
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If there is going to be an option to postpone fsck until next boot, why not also have an option to invoke it early? If you know you're about to give half a dozen presentations and you've gone 28 boots without a fsck, you should be able to force it on the 29th, get it out of the way, and then go off to do your presentations safe in the knowledge you won't have to think about it again for a long time.
I just think this should be handled in a more transparent option. Would it be possible to add a visual indicator to GRUB that tells you how many times left until a "compulsory" fsck, and include an option to do it early or late?
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jimcooncat wrote on the 8 Mar 08 at 14:01
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I'm a big reiserfs fan. Avoiding forced fsck isn't why I like it so much, but it's a nice bonus. I find that with my usage, reiserfs is a much more responsive system. You need to read up on it before taking the plunge, especially about "notail" on partitions that serve as the boot.
It's too bad that this fine technology is being overlooked because of social problems of the original programmer. It used to be the default of many distros.
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moonglow wrote on the 8 Mar 08 at 23:20
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If your pc won't boot at present you have to boot into recovery mode and run fsck manually. Why not just add "Check Filesystem" option to the boot menu and give users the choice of whether to run fsck or not. Autofsck would be good too.
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Steve413z wrote on the 9 Mar 08 at 17:44
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nothing is more frustrating when you are in a rush, need to login for 10 quick seconds, and BAM! wait 10 minutes while we do a fsck!! F*CK!!!
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ranser wrote on the 10 Mar 08 at 15:33
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On my desktop it takes 1 min to fsck. I see it as a good check feature and don't mind it. I gave a negative :(
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Xan wrote on the 11 Mar 08 at 16:00
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Perhaps a good flash system is good: logfs I think for example. If ubuntu support it, every thing is done
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browny_amiga wrote on the 13 Mar 08 at 02:03
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EXT3 is actually better than NTFS (which never does a fsck), this fsck is just a precaution to ensure litter is cleaned up in the FS.
You could use EXT3 without a fsck very well and I think that it sheds a wrong light on it (makes it look inferior to NTFS).
It should definitely be interuptible, pointing out to the user that it is recommended to do a routine maintenance once in while to make sure you data is safe and sound and ordered.
(most users don't understand the severity and think that it is something serious (which it is not)
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ktulu77 wrote on the 29 Mar 08 at 22:57
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I don't understand why this idea is marked as done.
I am on kubuntu 8.04 amd64 and I still cannot skip fsck at boot time.
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jimcooncat wrote on the 29 Apr 08 at 11:48
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Update 4/29/08: John Dong (jdong) has enlightened me regarding the waning support of ReiserFS. The website of the developing company, Namesys, has now gone offline. OpenSUSE did have good reasons to stop using it as the default filesystem, and I wished I'd run across their reasoning earlier (link below). I'm reevaluating, and will probably start using Ext3 instead.
http://blog.linuxoss.com/2006/09/27/suse-102-ditching-reiserfs-as-it-default-fs /
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johno wrote on the 1 May 08 at 06:07
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Are you sure this is done in Hardy? I just did an upgrade, and the first thing it wanted to do on reboot was an fsck. esc or ctrl-c don't stop it ... it just keeps moving slowly through the disk.
surely by default this should be done on shutdown, or in the background, and not on boot-up.
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maxadamo wrote on the 9 May 08 at 19:48
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This is a problem related only to ext3, and not to ubuntu.
Ext3 is a filesystem, who inherited all the crappy by his predecessor, with the only advantage of journal feature (mandatory, because ext2 was loosing data seriously).
You can tune the fsck request by using tune2fs, but, anyway, have you never seen a filesystem requiring FSCK after certain amount of mount operations?
Does Veritas, ZFS, UFS, XFS, Reiser, or even your windows XP, or windows Server, or JFS on hp-ux, or ibm-jfs on linux, requires to run FSCK after mounting the disk many times?
Furthermore, is there any relation between the number of mounting and the filesystem usage?
A huge fileserver, serving thousand of users, which was never reboot, will FSCK every 180 day, a desktop rebooted twice a day, will run FSCK every 20 days.
But if you never reboot such server, you'll never fsck on it.
Does this mean that you have to reboot a machine with ext3, at least, every 180 day (even if it's not written anywhere)?
Furthermore, I had problems with ext3 few times, but I never had problems with any other filesystem (no problems with VXFS, not problems with UFS, no problems with Reiser, no problems with XFS, and no problems with my windows with NTFS).
The only FS which can guarantee you having problem is EXT3.
I would suggest to NOT use ext3.
I don't have experience with JFS on linux, but I can ensure that Reiser and XFS work properly.
p.s.: XFS (like VXFS from Veritas) has also defrag tool (called xfs_fsr) because journaled FS have fragmentation problems. So... I can't find one reason to use ext3.
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Mishtal wrote on the 19 May 08 at 05:09
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not implimented
esc, ctrl-c, spacebar, return, enter, smashing the keyboard in frustration do absolutely nothing except print pretty lines on the screen.
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